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Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

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Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#571

Post by dncornholio »

cypress66 wrote: post #504
la6472 wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now it is hard to look at our kids faces and not feel the impact of this tragedy. I don’t know about everyone but for most people their kids lives are way more important than their right to bear military grade guns. If there is no perfect solution we have to live with a less than perfect solution. If the solution is to legally make it harder for people to access such guns then so be it.

As tragic as these events may be, the probability of your kids dying to a school shooting is still incredibly low, and a few orders of magnitude less than car accidents. Doing some quick math, it seems like it's around 100 to 1000 times more likely that some kid dies to some accident than a mass shooting. But people don't seem to worry 1000 times more about these accidents than school shootings. And it would actually…

> the probability of your kids dying to a school shooting is still incredibly low

It's only about 50000% higher than in any other place of the world. Is this what you say to you children? That they don't get to get unlucky????????

School should be one of the safest places of the world. People are discussing what COVID will do to the future of their kids. I wonder what living in fear will do instead, which has a much much much bigger impact than 2 years of missed school.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#572

Post by throwaway15908 »

hoseja wrote: post #494
librish wrote: post #89

It's time we start legislating based on empirical evidence instead of lofty ideals. Yes, if everyone was responsible perhaps it would be OK for all of us to own firearms. But so many people are utterly irresponsible, and guns make that irresponsibility lethal. People should safely store their fire-arms, but they don't and guns get stolen and sold illegally, or used by their teenage child. People shouldn't point a gun…

Hey how about tests to allow people to vote and have children. Sounds like a great idea.

I really want to see that risk assesment.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#573

Post by axilmar »

One side of the issue is gun availability.

The other side is that the American culture has a toxic side which can drive lonely young men to perform despicable acts.

Imagine being a lonely young boy, growing up getting bullied all the time, being told you amount to nothing, and it's your fault, and at the same time, while everyone around you is deep into corruption and sin, they preach to you that you should be sinless and pure!

I am not American, but I can sense the contradiction from miles away. And if it goes on for too long, especially when one is young, it can turn a person into a mass murderer.

Sadly, mental health issues stemming from society's ills is not really discussed anywhere and in depth. The focus is only on gun laws, gun ownership and gun availability. I am not saying that it is not an important aspect of the problem, but it cannot really be solved by just stricter gun control...even if guns were not really available, the people with mental health issues would use bombs or use other means to kill. But then the focus would be on terrorism, and the mental health problem will still not be discussed, because it's such a difficult topic...

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#574

Post by numpad0 »

Gatsky wrote: post #481
jonp888 wrote: post #40

As a foreigner, I do not see it as productive to seek any explanation or expect any reaction when yet another news story like this comes along. It's clear that this is the way Americans wish to live, and it is their perogative to do so.

I have learned that some Americans consider it crucial to arm themselves in case there is a tyrannical government in the future. This seems nuts to almost everyone else in a first world country, and probably many other Americans. But these people, who are not in fact nuts or cretinous, actually believe this and consider it of paramount importance. In one sense, the point can't be argued. My view: If the US population…

> I have learned that some Americans consider it crucial to arm themselves in case there is a tyrannical government in the future. This seems nuts to almost everyone else in a first world country

Yet they continue to absolutely dominate the world, culturally and economically. Can't rule out the possibility entirely that we are nuts and they are not.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#575

Post by bspammer »

DeathArrow wrote: post #519
librish wrote: post #89

It's time we start legislating based on empirical evidence instead of lofty ideals. Yes, if everyone was responsible perhaps it would be OK for all of us to own firearms. But so many people are utterly irresponsible, and guns make that irresponsibility lethal. People should safely store their fire-arms, but they don't and guns get stolen and sold illegally, or used by their teenage child. People shouldn't point a gun…

Before fire arms being invented people took other's lives with knives, swords or clubs. Or poison. Or bare hands. What makes you think that not owning a gun will make people less murderous?

Every other developed country on the planet not having this problem is a pretty big hint.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#576

Post by lelanthran »

dncornholio wrote: post #568
lelanthran wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Interesting. When compared to places like Australia, where guns are highly regulated and barely anyone owns a gun, such that there have been no mass shootings for 35 years, the solution really is obvious. Is it that simple? The is little correlation between stricter gun laws and fewer number of dead people: https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/27-years-recorded-crime-vict... That same link shows a slight negative correl…

Yes it is that simple. Denying there is a link between shooting and gun laws is he problem. It's that simple.

> Yes it is that simple. Denying there is a link between shooting and gun laws is he problem. It's that simple.

The data just doesn't support that view. Simply asserting "because I said so" is not a good way to convince people of your argument.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#577

Post by throwntoday »

MrMoenty wrote: post #551
cypress66 wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As tragic as these events may be, the probability of your kids dying to a school shooting is still incredibly low, and a few orders of magnitude less than car accidents. Doing some quick math, it seems like it's around 100 to 1000 times more likely that some kid dies to some accident than a mass shooting. But people don't seem to worry 1000 times more about these accidents than school shootings. And it would actually…

Perhaps this is approximately true if you focus exclusively on mass shootings at schools. But shootings overall are one of the leading causes of deaths for children in the US. See for instance the CDC's visualizations on causes of death per age group [1]. In 2020, 476 children aged 10-14 died in traffic accidents involving motor vehicles. 218 children aged 10-14 were killed in homicides by firearms. Those two numbers…

Any stats on legal vs illegal guns killing children?

Curious as to whether criminals being unable to purchase firearms legally has done anything to stop them from getting ahold of firearms and committing shootings.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#578

Post by throwntoday »

neartheplain wrote: post #530
beloch wrote: post #83

Canada is the U.S.'s neighbour and is probably closer, culturally, than any other nation. Gun ownership is also high in Canada. In terms of guns per capita, the U.S. is #1 by a long shot, but Canada is #7 [1]. In Canada, guns owned per capita is one third of what it is in the U.S.. Canada also has mass shootings. The annual deaths from mass shootings per capita in Canada is 0.032, which is about one third that of the…

>Canada is the U.S.'s neighbour and is probably closer, culturally, than any other nation. Your point about cultural similarity holds true mainly for descendants of European immigrants. The shared culture here isn't just Marvel movies but values passed down among families from the Old Country like a Christian moral framework, Anglo-American law, the Protestant work ethic, Puritan attidues towards sex, etc. If you bre…

Thank you for honestly stating the issue. Often times I see people get defensive or reactionary and jump to calling racism when simply stating these facts. How on Earth do you expect to solve an issue if you can't even admit it.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#579

Post by throwntoday »

watwut wrote: post #518
beloch wrote: post #83

Canada is the U.S.'s neighbour and is probably closer, culturally, than any other nation. Gun ownership is also high in Canada. In terms of guns per capita, the U.S. is #1 by a long shot, but Canada is #7 [1]. In Canada, guns owned per capita is one third of what it is in the U.S.. Canada also has mass shootings. The annual deaths from mass shootings per capita in Canada is 0.032, which is about one third that of the…

> gun owners would be much more receptive to regulation if they felt people were genuinely trying to separate narrow and effective laws from broad infringements that annoy many and accomplish little Actually, there were polls based on which gun owners support gun regulation a lot more then one would say. There is subgroup of gun owners represented by NRA who dont - but they dont represent average gun owner. The suppo…

I think any restrictions on gun ownership are unconstitutional. Primarily because I don't think the founding fathers minced words about the purpose of the second amendment, but mostly I don't trust the government at all.

I have never met a gun owner who does trust the government, or supports regulation and I've spent a lot of time around them. So I'll have to disagree with your supposition.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#580

Post by pjc50 »

hikingsimulator wrote: post #488
Gatsky wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have learned that some Americans consider it crucial to arm themselves in case there is a tyrannical government in the future. This seems nuts to almost everyone else in a first world country, and probably many other Americans. But these people, who are not in fact nuts or cretinous, actually believe this and consider it of paramount importance. In one sense, the point can't be argued. My view: If the US population…

Quoted post unavailable.

It was remarkable how quickly California enacted gun control after the Black Panthers appeared.
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