Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency” • Hacker News Board

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#111

Post by AlexandrB » Fri, Oct 21, 2011, 5:07 PM UTC

dolphenstein wrote: post #44

AlexandrB wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough on the 6pm thing. However, there seems to be evidence [1] that the typical 2 month summer break is hurting student performance - especially for poorer students whose parents can't afford to put them into enrichment activities in the summer. How, exactly, would 11 month school years be a nightmare? Misalignment already exists - Colleges get 4 months off, don't they? I also recall seeing a talk about this e…

So Chinese factories along with Chinese style education? I strongly disagree. Finland leads the world in education because they provide individualised learning and teach critical thinking. The children start school there at a much later age too. They don't run a 9 hour a day, 11 month military camp for kids. Importance of play: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Finland#Readiness_... vs "Children too busy for…

I agree that 6pm is too late to end the school day. I don't see the issue with 11 month school though. Especially since it doesn't necessarily mean less vacation time overall - that "lost" month can be spread across 2 week windows elsewhere in the year. The point is avoiding the big 2 month gap.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#112

Post by AlexandrB » Fri, Oct 21, 2011, 5:17 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #49

AlexandrB wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough on the 6pm thing. However, there seems to be evidence [1] that the typical 2 month summer break is hurting student performance - especially for poorer students whose parents can't afford to put them into enrichment activities in the summer. How, exactly, would 11 month school years be a nightmare? Misalignment already exists - Colleges get 4 months off, don't they? I also recall seeing a talk about this e…

In the US there are plenty of summer programs for low income children. More important, summer is a time many kids work or be kids. This belief that he only place to learn is school is bunk. It is bad enough the amount of busy work students are assigned now (3+ hours) of homework a night. Adults get mad at our work / life balance, yet we seem bound and determined to heap soul destroying hours on our children. We need…

Imagine being able to skip the annoying 2+ weeks of review at the beginning of every school year - that's the goal/benefit of trimming summer vacation to 1 month.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#113

Post by drzaiusapelord » Fri, Oct 21, 2011, 5:22 PM UTC

Duff wrote: post #99

protomyth wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would seem that for $529 million they could build one. Isn't Tesla building cars here?

Money is one issue, time is another. In most US jurisdictions, dozens of entities have the ability to say "no" to a development project. In states that are actively hostile to business, like New York or California, there may be hundreds of people or groups that can slow down projects. Examples: Local Zoning Board; Whomever controls permits for running utilities; State/local environmental boards (Lots and lots of $$$…

>n states that are actively hostile to business, like New York or California

If you think things are easier in Finland, then you're wrong. Turns out this is a specific case looking for a specific type of factory that could make a specific car on a specific contract. Your right-wing screed is not as convincing as you think it is. I'm not even going to point out how huge NY and Cali economies are.

>n China or Brazil, you basically partner with a connected local, and build your factory in a few months.

Replace "regulatory bullshit" with just as much bullshit except involving bribes, shakedowns, and forced contributions to political parties and dealing with a level of corruption and labor conditions that are staggeringly awful and depressing. My gf does work with BRIC economies all the time and the lesson I want to somehow teach you is that civilization and labor/environmental protections are worth it. They are waaaay worth it. I'm afraid people like you purposely refuse to learn this basic lesson and are otherwise spoiled by the Western privilege you refuse to share.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#114

Post by protomyth » Fri, Oct 21, 2011, 5:36 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #111

dolphenstein wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Chinese factories along with Chinese style education? I strongly disagree. Finland leads the world in education because they provide individualised learning and teach critical thinking. The children start school there at a much later age too. They don't run a 9 hour a day, 11 month military camp for kids. Importance of play: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Finland#Readiness_... vs "Children too busy for…

I agree that 6pm is too late to end the school day. I don't see the issue with 11 month school though. Especially since it doesn't necessarily mean less vacation time overall - that "lost" month can be spread across 2 week windows elsewhere in the year. The point is avoiding the big 2 month gap.

I would rather ask what is wrong with our educational system that makes a 2 month gap bad but a 1 month gap ok?

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#115

Post by ajays » Fri, Oct 21, 2011, 5:56 PM UTC

ajays wrote: post #100

temphn wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory, sure, a disinterested regulator would ensure that the cost of polluting was higher than the cost of not polluting. (Another solution to this problem is via property right enforcement, by the owners of the nearby polluted properties that share airspace/water table with the polluter). But in practice the EPA is hardly a disinterested party when it comes to publishing studies on its own cost effectiveness. It…

"telling them to sue the agency" This sounds bad in a soundbite, but this is the way the system works. Consider this loose example: suppose 2 people get into a fight. One guy really beats up another guy, and the cops are called. If the recipient refuses to press charges, the cops can't do anything. Similarly, a lot of government agencies can't proactively do something, until someone sues them. By getting sued, they g…

Argh! Why the downvotes? This is the way the government works! A government agency often needs a legal cover to do something; so it asks the citizens to sue them in court, so that it will have the legal cover. It can't sue itself, because it can't be the plaintiff and the defendant at the same time.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#116

Post by protomyth » Fri, Oct 21, 2011, 6:09 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #112

protomyth wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US there are plenty of summer programs for low income children. More important, summer is a time many kids work or be kids. This belief that he only place to learn is school is bunk. It is bad enough the amount of busy work students are assigned now (3+ hours) of homework a night. Adults get mad at our work / life balance, yet we seem bound and determined to heap soul destroying hours on our children. We need…

Imagine being able to skip the annoying 2+ weeks of review at the beginning of every school year - that's the goal/benefit of trimming summer vacation to 1 month.

So, to save 2 weeks we take another month of the students time away from activities that might have been teaching the student different things than the school is willing to teach? Sounds like an unfair trade-off. School is not the only place of learning and cutting down the large breaks removes possibilities of doing something else just as educational and often times more fulfilling.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#117

Post by MatthewPhillips » Fri, Oct 21, 2011, 7:02 PM UTC

Gormo wrote: post #85

veidr wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but if you want all schools to be open until six, I'd say the president is a reasonable place to start that discussion. (That's not to say that I think this (good) idea could ever be implemented in the USA, though.)

If you want all schools to be open until six, you need to take it up with each of the thousands of local school boards in the US, along with the many thousands of charter, private, and other independent schools. The federal government has no policy-making authority w/r/t education in the United States. And if such authority did exist at the federal level, the appropriate place to start would be Congress, not the exec…

Bureaucratic authority, no. Influence to the point of defacto authority, yes.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#118

Post by gte910h » Fri, Oct 21, 2011, 7:21 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #107

gte910h wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.pbs.org/makingschoolswork/sbs/kipp/index.html is something about it

That study seems to draw all its conclusions from inner city / low income. I would submit it is not a model for the rest of the country unless further testing is done in other environments. story: A couple of decades ago I used to work on grants and educational programs. One group came to ND to give a lecture on risk factors. In Minot ND, they told the crowd that "firearms" automatically means more violence. "It has…

I'd contend communities with a large number of handguns (but no rifles) probably does have a crime problem, it's just likely the guns are a response to it, less than a cause.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#119

Post by brianbreslin » Fri, Oct 21, 2011, 7:30 PM UTC

badclient wrote: post #54

brianbreslin wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but it could reduce the drop in productivity the parents have when they leave work to pick them up? (just brainstorming). OR it can provide for more customized learning/hands on experience for the individual kids.

I'd argue if we better utilize the hours kids spend at school right now we can do all that without needing more hours.

oh i agree, but if we aren't increasing funding for education, we're unlikely to ever see any change. we as a society don't seem to place education super high on the totem pole come funding time.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#120

Post by gte910h » Fri, Oct 21, 2011, 7:37 PM UTC

Jach wrote: post #76

protomyth wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be interested in what studies this information comes from and what locales it was done in.

A cynical perspective: schools are prisons, and some lower income gang-joining students are criminals. An extra hour in school corresponds to a criminal spending an extra hour in prison instead of out wreaking havoc. The next question is forcing such students to stay in the school to begin with...

I think "schools are places that give people of a certain age something to do without giving them the option of leaving" is a perfectly valid sentiment and a good description of why more 10 - 14 year olds would perform less crime.

Calling them prisons implies the entire population of students would commit said crimes.