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Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

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Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#91

Post by acabal »

grannyg00se wrote: post #79
protomyth wrote: post #4

An 11 month school year would be a nightmare and screw up summer activities. Plus, the misalignment of HS and College schedules will hurt advanced students. School going to 6pm in the northland is a non-starter and dangerous. (getting a little sick of the down votes without comment)

I didn't downvote but would you care to explain your reasons for all of these statements? What is so nightmatish about schools open 11mths of the year? How is school being open until 6pm dangerous? Is it something to do with darkness? Is darkness inherently dangerous? Personally I think the suggestion about union rules and hiring/firing based on merit is the most significant of the bunch. More of the same type of sch…

I'm guessing that in the northern states, part of the year is a harsh winter and early sunset, so having kids leave school at 6pm could lead to them walking home in the snow and in the dark.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#92

Post by myspy »

codeslush wrote: post #24
protomyth wrote: post #4

An 11 month school year would be a nightmare and screw up summer activities. Plus, the misalignment of HS and College schedules will hurt advanced students. School going to 6pm in the northland is a non-starter and dangerous. (getting a little sick of the down votes without comment)

I will agree with you. I grew up way too fast, have a few kids of my own, and they are growing up way too fast for different reasons than I did. My reason? I worked from 13 on for wages. My kids? They're working much harder than I had to just to get a chance to go to a decent university. The pressure on our kids is pretty significant. To the point they WILL NOT miss school when they are sick. Can't miss this, can't m…

Maybe Steve imagined something like the European system. You go to school until 5/6pm but you do your whole homework in school and the afternoon is for that and other activities to broaden the mind.

Otherwise, that's a stupid idea. In Germany teachers are civil servants so they can't build unions, they can't get fired too, but they can pushed off their position when they are bad teachers.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#93

Post by davedx »

myspy wrote: post #92
codeslush wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will agree with you. I grew up way too fast, have a few kids of my own, and they are growing up way too fast for different reasons than I did. My reason? I worked from 13 on for wages. My kids? They're working much harder than I had to just to get a chance to go to a decent university. The pressure on our kids is pretty significant. To the point they WILL NOT miss school when they are sick. Can't miss this, can't m…

Maybe Steve imagined something like the European system. You go to school until 5/6pm but you do your whole homework in school and the afternoon is for that and other activities to broaden the mind. Otherwise, that's a stupid idea. In Germany teachers are civil servants so they can't build unions, they can't get fired too, but they can pushed off their position when they are bad teachers.

Huh? I went to school till 3:15pm.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#94

Post by qF »

myspy wrote: post #92
codeslush wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will agree with you. I grew up way too fast, have a few kids of my own, and they are growing up way too fast for different reasons than I did. My reason? I worked from 13 on for wages. My kids? They're working much harder than I had to just to get a chance to go to a decent university. The pressure on our kids is pretty significant. To the point they WILL NOT miss school when they are sick. Can't miss this, can't m…

Maybe Steve imagined something like the European system. You go to school until 5/6pm but you do your whole homework in school and the afternoon is for that and other activities to broaden the mind. Otherwise, that's a stupid idea. In Germany teachers are civil servants so they can't build unions, they can't get fired too, but they can pushed off their position when they are bad teachers.

"the European system"? The systems in individual European countries are about as different from each other as any of them are different from the US system.

One attempt to somewhat align the different European systems for higher education was the ECTS [1], but even that isn't quite perfect..

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Credit_Transfer_and_Ac...

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#95

Post by smithian »

anamax wrote: post #64
rayiner wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jobs was a businessman, not an economist. There is a good reason regulation makes it more expensive to open factories in the US: our regulations force companies to internalize the negative externalities their businesses create. China effectively subsidizes industry by forcing its citizens to bear the costs of pollution, injuries, etc, inherent in such activities. US regulation forces companies to bear some of these c…

> In its retrospective study on the 1970 Clean Air Act, the EPA estimated that the benefit of pollution control over the 20 year period was on the order of $22 trillion. $22T/20 years is over $1T/year. US GDP in 1990 was under $6T. US GDP in 1970 was just over $1T. > the lack of Clean Air Act controls on the use of leaded gasoline would have resulted in major increases in child IQ loss Oh really? Why would leaded gas…

GDP does not account for the externalities that the study took into account.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#96

Post by mlok »

Zakharov wrote: post #77
AlexandrB wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough on the 6pm thing. However, there seems to be evidence [1] that the typical 2 month summer break is hurting student performance - especially for poorer students whose parents can't afford to put them into enrichment activities in the summer. How, exactly, would 11 month school years be a nightmare? Misalignment already exists - Colleges get 4 months off, don't they? I also recall seeing a talk about this e…

Here in Australia kids get 6 weeks off in summer, plus 2 weeks in autumn, winter, and spring. This seems much more sensible than getting everything off over the summer.

Here in France kids get 2 months off in summer, plus 1 week in autumn, 2 weeks for Christmas, 2 weeks late winter, 2 weeks in spring. The best of both worlds from the kids point of view.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#97

Post by arethuza »

Zakharov wrote: post #77
AlexandrB wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough on the 6pm thing. However, there seems to be evidence [1] that the typical 2 month summer break is hurting student performance - especially for poorer students whose parents can't afford to put them into enrichment activities in the summer. How, exactly, would 11 month school years be a nightmare? Misalignment already exists - Colleges get 4 months off, don't they? I also recall seeing a talk about this e…

Here in Australia kids get 6 weeks off in summer, plus 2 weeks in autumn, winter, and spring. This seems much more sensible than getting everything off over the summer.

That's pretty much what my son has at his school here in Scotland.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#98

Post by Duff »

AlexandrB wrote: post #31
protomyth wrote: post #4

An 11 month school year would be a nightmare and screw up summer activities. Plus, the misalignment of HS and College schedules will hurt advanced students. School going to 6pm in the northland is a non-starter and dangerous. (getting a little sick of the down votes without comment)

Fair enough on the 6pm thing. However, there seems to be evidence [1] that the typical 2 month summer break is hurting student performance - especially for poorer students whose parents can't afford to put them into enrichment activities in the summer. How, exactly, would 11 month school years be a nightmare? Misalignment already exists - Colleges get 4 months off, don't they? I also recall seeing a talk about this e…

I'm pretty sure these studies have been debunked in the past. I tend to agree with the debunking, because the arguments against summer vacation always stand up a strawman with the assumption that "good parents" send kids to camp, take the summers off, etc.

None of my circle of friends went to camp. We played outside, hung out with grandparents, etc. My parents weren't teachers, so they didn't have summers off.

Personally, I lived for summer vacation until I was like 14. If you took that away, it would have negatively affected me, and many others.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#99

Post by Duff »

protomyth wrote: post #13
hammock wrote: post #9

On the subject of "You’re headed for a one-term presidency because the US can’t build factories" : http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/car-company-us-loan-builds-car... With the approval of the Obama administration, an electric car company that received a $529 million federal government stimulus loan guarantee is assembling its first line of cars in Finland, saying it could not find a facility in the United States capable…

It would seem that for $529 million they could build one. Isn't Tesla building cars here?

Money is one issue, time is another.

In most US jurisdictions, dozens of entities have the ability to say "no" to a development project. In states that are actively hostile to business, like New York or California, there may be hundreds of people or groups that can slow down projects.

Examples: Local Zoning Board; Whomever controls permits for running utilities; State/local environmental boards (Lots and lots of $$$ permits); Land speculators ("building a factory in this industrial park will ruin the views from XXX piece of land that we own"); Historical preservation maniacs. ("That collapsing house was was rented by Richard Nixon's maid"); Local politicians ("Oh, you need to build a 200,000 square foot building? Our master plan was modified last week -- buildings are capped at 150,000 square feet.); Local politicians in neighboring municipalities. ("Your project will generate too much traffic"); Local real property tax boards.; State politicians; Local construction unions. (Who will sabotage your project if you don't play along.); State Labor Departments, acting as agents for the construction unions.; Environmental pressure groups. ("Your stormwater mitigation strategy is insufficient, you're getting sued"); Federal regulators.

In New York, things are so bad that any significant project is essentially done under the aegis of the state government, usually via a public authority. The government provides funding, and can cut through some of the red tape, since the State is not subject to local zoning law. But there are usually strings attached, and the process takes years.

In China or Brazil, you basically partner with a connected local, and build your factory in a few months.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#100

Post by ajays »

temphn wrote: post #74
rayiner wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jobs was a businessman, not an economist. There is a good reason regulation makes it more expensive to open factories in the US: our regulations force companies to internalize the negative externalities their businesses create. China effectively subsidizes industry by forcing its citizens to bear the costs of pollution, injuries, etc, inherent in such activities. US regulation forces companies to bear some of these c…

In theory, sure, a disinterested regulator would ensure that the cost of polluting was higher than the cost of not polluting. (Another solution to this problem is via property right enforcement, by the owners of the nearby polluted properties that share airspace/water table with the polluter). But in practice the EPA is hardly a disinterested party when it comes to publishing studies on its own cost effectiveness. It…

"telling them to sue the agency"

This sounds bad in a soundbite, but this is the way the system works.

Consider this loose example: suppose 2 people get into a fight. One guy really beats up another guy, and the cops are called. If the recipient refuses to press charges, the cops can't do anything.

Similarly, a lot of government agencies can't proactively do something, until someone sues them. By getting sued, they get to act on the complaint, and the legal opinion can be used to justify similar action elsewhere.

There is no nefarious purpose here; it is disingenuous to claim so. Yes, government agencies have issues galore; but by conflating the necessary with the rest, we fail to identify the real problems.

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