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Gen Z does not dream of labor

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Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#371

Post by smsm42 »

burlesona wrote: post #14

> “My dad got a job straight out of high school, saved up, and bought a house in his 20s,” said Anne Dakota, a 21-year-old receptionist from Asheville, North Carolina, who earns minimum wage. “I don’t even think that’s possible for me, at least with the current money I make.” I think this is pretty much the whole story. It’s very hard to be motivated to work when you could save your entire adult life and still strugg…

Who told you a new car and owning a house is an "entry level" thing? If you expect somebody to give that to you you're up for a disappointment. A new car is an expensive thing, and a house is even more. You need to work a lot to be able to afford expensive things. Sure, you can make the life satisfying right now - e.g. by buying some drugs. But it will become very unsatisfying pretty soon after that. Because there's no such thing as getting expensive things without working - for most of the people. Sure, tiny minority gets lucky. But the majority works - and gets those expensive things after a long time, because it takes a long time to earn them. And one of the reasons it may be harder to earn them now is that a lot of people have a desire to consume, but no desire to produce - but somebody has to produce what they consume. It's no wonder it becomes harder for the people who produce something to get by - the unearned consumption has to come from somewhere.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#372

Post by smsm42 »

skulk wrote: post #83
bufferoverflow wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this narrative is that the job of the father isn't specified. He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. These jobs pay well above the minimum wage. The world has changed - simple labor that requires a few days of training doesn't pay much. Most jobs, with few exceptions, that require a decade of training, do pay well. That's why there's such a huge…

> He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. False. A plumber making $80k (US median seems to be around $60k) isn't going to be able to save up for a down payment if they're paying a typical mid-sized city's rent (~$1.2k a month). Not to mention housing costs going up during this period of saving up.

The trick here is that you compare overall earning over the US (including rural Arkansas and such) with "mid-city" rent - i.e. only select places. According to https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/average-ren... at least half the states have median rent below $1000. And yes, you can't live in San Francisco on Arkansas salary, but if you ever tried to hire a plumber in Bay Area, especially for a job beyond "my faucet is leaking", you know very well it costs a real lot.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#373

Post by smsm42 »

sha256sum wrote: post #225
zdragnar wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if they visited, they'd find their assumptions to be unwarranted racism. It isn't as diverse as some other parts of the country, but there's groups of people from all over the world. Within a 2 hour drive from me, you'll find enclaves from Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, Mexico and others.

I went into an experience living in Wisconsin with exactly this viewpoint and was sorely disappointed at the shear amount of selfish, entitled, prejudiced behavior that exists only in these lands of strip malls and spoiled nature. I’m saying this so the next person reading your post isn’t swayed. And to those people: many of these towns are dead. They died long ago with the small farms and factories. The Houses are p…

I have been sorely disappointed by the shear amount of selfish, entitled, prejudiced behavior I observed in Bay Area, so what? The exact nature of prejudice may be a bit different, but it's still very much around here. OK, the difference in the Bay Area you pay 20x for it, I guess.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#374

Post by smsm42 »

skulk wrote: post #211
zdragnar wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if they visited, they'd find their assumptions to be unwarranted racism. It isn't as diverse as some other parts of the country, but there's groups of people from all over the world. Within a 2 hour drive from me, you'll find enclaves from Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, Mexico and others.

If not wanting to live in an enclave as a nominally second-class citizen is racist, then I don't know what to say. Let's not deny reality here, that's really what you end up being if you try to interact with the main racial group in a rural area, or at least the vast majority of them. It doesn't matter what race this happens to be, it's how people work. I know an Englishman who lives in an Indonesian village (not an…

As an immigrant, individualist and severe introvert, I'd probably never be "one of them" anywhere anyway, why bother? I suspect that stuff is overrated anyway.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#375

Post by jjav »

ceeplusplus wrote: post #358
jjav wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It costs $3200/mo to pay someone $20/h for 40 hours a week, in what world does day care (where one caretaker takes care of multiple children!) cost $3000/mo? Tell me you have no children without telling me you have no children? The daycare my child went to is $2500/month. Not quite $3K but I'm not in the most expensive areas. I have no doubt it can go over $3K in SF/Palo Alto/etc.

I saw in your post history you're also paying $2000/mo for health insurance. Maybe you're not making the wisest financial decisions? There's no world in which a rational person pays that much given the data and available plans. Even an ACA platinum plan (the top one) with zero employer or government subsidy is cheaper than that. I just looked and a Platinum plan in CA for a family costs $1400.

> I saw in your post history you're also paying $2000/mo for health insurance. Maybe you're not making the wisest financial decisions?

Not only an ad hominen, but changing topics?

> I just looked and a Platinum plan in CA for a family costs $1400.

I don't know where you looked but it's wrong.

I literally just went to https://www.coveredca.com/ and filled in details for a quote.

A platinum plan with Blue Shield is $2530.04/month.

With Kaiser, it is $2637.23/month.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#376

Post by nunez »

ceeplusplus wrote: post #151
skulk wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. False. A plumber making $80k (US median seems to be around $60k) isn't going to be able to save up for a down payment if they're paying a typical mid-sized city's rent (~$1.2k a month). Not to mention housing costs going up during this period of saving up.

At 80k your post-tax takehome is $5000/mo even filing single in a high tax state. Take out $400 for health insurance, $800 for car+insurance, $1200 for rent, and you've still got $2500 for food, miscellaneous spending, Roth IRA, etc. Even if all those costs come to $2000 - unlikely, since the Roth contribution limit is $6k / year - you're still left with $500/month in savings. And that's assuming your partner doesn't…

also assumes no loans or credit card debt, both of which are unfortunately likely

also assumes that you are mentally strong enough to live like a pauper to hopefully afford the bare minimum required to scrounge up a downpayment.

doesn't assume building a maintenance fund (2% of home value per year), closing costs (2% of home value, one-time cost), purchasing stuff to fill the home (like furniture/appliances), etc.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#377

Post by nunez »

ceeplusplus wrote: post #250
rtlfe wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this person never has a kid. Enjoy your rent doubling to get enough space and either losing your partner's income or spending $3k a month on day care. Plus whatever crappy insurance you're getting for $400 a month is going to leave with $10k+ in bills for just birthing the kid.

From Kaiser's 2020 survey on healthcare plans, the average worker contribution for HMO/PPO plans for a family was $5000-6000/yr [1]. These are not high deductible plans (those are specifically broken out) so they're going to be pretty good insurance, especially PPO. So $400/mo is only underestimating the true cost by about $100/mo. You can't use ACA marketplace prices to judge what your average worker is paying. > sp…

gonna guess those averages include state-run programs where parents get vouchers for daycare

i'm not a parent and don't want to be one but know enough parents to know that daycare is bloody fucking expensive, usually thousands/mo, unless the parents have a support system, but even then it's a trade-off.

the silver lining of course is that it's a temporary expense.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#378

Post by jjav »

HWR_14 wrote: post #173
ghusto wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't wealth _always_ more concentrated in higher age brackets? It's only logical that the longer you've been around (and more dues you've paid) the more you opportunity you've had to accumulate whatever you're after. > millennials don't have anywhere near as much share of wealth as Gen X had I hate to go there, but isn't this because of their unrealistic views on work? I've heard of millennials not turning up for wo…

> Isn't wealth _always_ more concentrated in higher age brackets? Yes. That's why the quoted factoid talks about "at this stage in their life". If you look back at boomers and genx, they had 4 and 2 times as much wealth as millennials do when they were the same age. > I've heard of millennials not turning up for work because they "didn't feel like working" that day. Why would that matter? Even if that happens sometim…

> If you look back at boomers and genx, they had 4 and 2 times as much wealth as millennials do when they were the same age.

Any links to show this?

It feels like now is the golden age to enter employment, at least in technical fields. Starting salaries and total comp are through the roof, so anyone having graduated recently can jump start their earnings in their 20s at a very high level.

Adjusted for inflation, I've hired new graduates at salaries 3x what my starting salary was (again, adjusted for inflation). Back a few decades ago tech was just another professional job, salaries were ok but nothing like the incredible numbers of today.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#379

Post by nunez »

deanCommie wrote: post #213
Solvitieg wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I currently have enough money saved to travel the world for 5 years. That's a long time. Imagine how much more fulfilling that journey would be than putting this money towards a lowend 1-bedroom condo in Vancouver and then working 20 years at a high-end career to pay it off. Insane proposition. VHCOL cities are not appealing anymore. I want out.

If your perspective on housing is "just need a place to live", then paying off a mortgage for 20 years is hardly a problem. You are tied down, yes, but if you have friends and family in the area and like where you live, it's hardly a problem - it's just a life. (Of course this is different if the intention is "buy a place, wait until it rises in value, flip it, and repeat") That said, you need to want to put down roo…

honestly, "hey, spending 20 years of your life paying to "own" the roof over your head" sounds sad to me...unless you have dependents and need the stability

not everyone has dreams of planting roots

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#380

Post by watwut »

zdragnar wrote: post #287
watwut wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume the poster ever cared about git, naming or racism? Even among Americans, these are minority. Moreover, HN is more of actively hostile tonideas like that. You don't even know whether OP is American. You are doing literally what you complain about why you complain about it. Moreover, bohemian literally means "a socially unconventional person, especially one who is involved in the arts". I am guessing…

Bohemia is a place and a people within what is now the Czech republic. "Bohemian" got that meaning because French aristocratic youth saw Roma gypsy immegrants and just called them whatever the closest east European neighbors they thought of. The fact that you think it is a lifestyle and not a people shows just how much history is lost. Somehow king Wenceslas got turned into a Christmas carol, but that's about it.

Czechs are not referred to as bohemians. Gypsies are not referred to as bohemians.

And I don't just "think" it is lifestyle. I checked multiple dictionaries and they all refer to it as lifestyle. And the way it was used, it was always used as lifestyle. I never even seen it being used for either czechs or gypsies.

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