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Gen Z does not dream of labor

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Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#191

Post by beej71 »

heavyset_go wrote: post #175
karaterobot wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree. I made under $80k in household income when I bought my first home in 2014. This was in (well, just outside) Seattle, which was and remains one of the more expensive markets in the country. I saved up for a down payment; it took years. It wasn't my dream home, but it allowed me to build equity and continue saving for the one that was. I am not ready to say "kids these days want everything handed to them…

It isn't 2014 anymore and rents have doubled around here since then, cost of living has gone way up, while wages have stayed relatively stagnant.

This. My house has more than doubled since 2014. There's a huge gap between those who can afford a $300k house and those who can afford an $800K house.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#192

Post by ghusto »

HWR_14 wrote: post #173
ghusto wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't wealth _always_ more concentrated in higher age brackets? It's only logical that the longer you've been around (and more dues you've paid) the more you opportunity you've had to accumulate whatever you're after. > millennials don't have anywhere near as much share of wealth as Gen X had I hate to go there, but isn't this because of their unrealistic views on work? I've heard of millennials not turning up for wo…

> Isn't wealth _always_ more concentrated in higher age brackets? Yes. That's why the quoted factoid talks about "at this stage in their life". If you look back at boomers and genx, they had 4 and 2 times as much wealth as millennials do when they were the same age. > I've heard of millennials not turning up for work because they "didn't feel like working" that day. Why would that matter? Even if that happens sometim…

> Yes. That's why the quoted factoid talks about "at this stage in their life". If you look back at boomers and genx, they had 4 and 2 times as much wealth as millennials do when they were the same age.

I missed and am continuing to completely miss this. Do you mean in the article? If true, would that align with the difference in population size (distribution of a finite amount of wealth to more people)? It would be interesting if so, because it could mean that we're in for even more interesting times when the population shrinks in 50 years.

> Why would that matter? Even if that happens sometimes it's not like it changes things on a generational level if the lowest earners get fired slightly more often.

True, but do they? I'm not saying they don't, but haven't seen anything to indicate they do. I've seen people get away with things that would have gotten me fired at their age, so am inclined to believe people are not getting fired more often.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#193

Post by ushakov »

barbecue_sauce wrote: post #182
ushakov wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's in the US though in Germany even if you're poor you can go to the University and succeed my friends all studied and they were from normal working-class families everyone gets a chance and all you need is put some effort

I thought that in Germany you were essentially hand-picked by age 10 what educational track you would wind up on.

if you didn't get picked you can still unlock the University track

you'd need to study 3 years to get your Abitur, however (which is only 1 year more than Gymnasium folks would)

ps. this may be different by state

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#194

Post by throwaway-m3232 »

droobles wrote: post #86
bufferoverflow wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this narrative is that the job of the father isn't specified. He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. These jobs pay well above the minimum wage. The world has changed - simple labor that requires a few days of training doesn't pay much. Most jobs, with few exceptions, that require a decade of training, do pay well. That's why there's such a huge…

All the more reason to adopt the bohemian philosophy and pursue other pleasures if one finds working these modern jobs unfulfilling, only so much time on this earth.

No post body was provided.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#195

Post by mordymoop »

Jerred wrote: post #38

As a Gen Z it's not that our entire generation is lazy it's that we've seen our parents give their entire lives to a company or industry just counting down the years to retirement. That personally is my worst case scenario for my career. Sure some people my age just want to be famous and not do any hard work, but I'd say the majority just don't want to be a "good employee" for 40 years just increasing the number ever…

Your first paragraph is something that I, a middle-Millenial, could have written when I was 20. Fight Club, a film about young men broken by the dehumanizing nihilism of “working a job you hate to buy stuff you don’t need” (among other things) came out in 1999, and was something of a cultural bell-weather.

(I think the main difference between now and 1999 is that simply working a job you hate no longer guarantees you the ability to buy the stuff you don’t need.)

One lense that I don’t see put for often is: it’s not that GenZ is particularly poorly situated, it’s that the American Boomers, specifically, we’re the luckiest demographic cohort in world history, luckier than those who came before or after. Folks born in the 1850s might have technically been able to buy “a house” but it would not be a house that a modern person would find acceptable — plumbing, electricity, climate control, insulation, weatherproofing, fire safety, appliances and amenities, would all be abysmal by our standards. (The foundations of such houses were usually just a few big rocks.) In theory, a modern young person could build a house conforming to 1900 “average house” standards for cheap, but nobody wants such a house, and nobody builds them, and it is likely that such a house would be in violation of code. The richest person in 1900 couldn’t buy a house as good as the median US house.

So we’re in a place that our ancestors would view as a hypertech Jetsons future, except we got out over our skis for weird demographic and economic reasons and it’s currently very expensive to buy the latest hypertech magic house, and impossible to buy (what that ancestor or would call) a “normal” house.

This perspective — comparing more to any generation other than the Boomers provides a more realistic perspective.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#196

Post by Mezzie »

novok wrote: post #44
gunfighthacksaw wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a 92 baby I feel like a cusper. Cynical, jaded and ironic like Gen Y and X but I’ve grown up on/in the internet and the accelerated mass culture in which we live. Honestly in high school I felt like an oddball but I think I’d be normal if not cool as a zoomer since I was there at the beginning of most of the memes.

I think a lot of millennial nerds grew up with the internet that a lot of their peers did not in many ways, but with gen Z grew up with the internet wether they liked it or not. We are the pioneers that created a lot of this cultural landscape. So millennial nerds feel closer to gen z in this way than other millennials do. We also developed a cultural immune system to a lot of the bad shit of the internet, like “don’…

It's bizarre to watch, as a Millennial who got unrestricted internet access in 1993.

I definitely have my 'oh no' moments. It does make me wonder what our social responsibility is here. As kids on the internet, most of our adults could be forgiven for not knowing what was going on, since they didn't understand the internet. We can see the trainwrecks coming, at least. Should we do something?

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#197

Post by throwawayboise »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #56
burlesona wrote: post #14

> “My dad got a job straight out of high school, saved up, and bought a house in his 20s,” said Anne Dakota, a 21-year-old receptionist from Asheville, North Carolina, who earns minimum wage. “I don’t even think that’s possible for me, at least with the current money I make.” I think this is pretty much the whole story. It’s very hard to be motivated to work when you could save your entire adult life and still strugg…

The problem with this narrative is that the job of the father isn't specified. He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. These jobs pay well above the minimum wage. The world has changed - simple labor that requires a few days of training doesn't pay much. Most jobs, with few exceptions, that require a decade of training, do pay well. That's why there's such a huge…

Yes. You've never been able to buy a house or raise "a family of four" on minimum wage. Minimum wage was never intended to provide that level of income.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#198

Post by Fnoord »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #56
burlesona wrote: post #14

> “My dad got a job straight out of high school, saved up, and bought a house in his 20s,” said Anne Dakota, a 21-year-old receptionist from Asheville, North Carolina, who earns minimum wage. “I don’t even think that’s possible for me, at least with the current money I make.” I think this is pretty much the whole story. It’s very hard to be motivated to work when you could save your entire adult life and still strugg…

The problem with this narrative is that the job of the father isn't specified. He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. These jobs pay well above the minimum wage. The world has changed - simple labor that requires a few days of training doesn't pay much. Most jobs, with few exceptions, that require a decade of training, do pay well. That's why there's such a huge…

Guess it depends on where you live. I live in Amsterdam Area and there is a shortage of plumbers in my city. The family owned business always have their agenda full, and they do well (even after taxes). You don't learn such a trait in a day or week. These guys are professionals, learned it via trait school. Its a different league compared to stuff like package or food delivery (though even for package delivery you need a drivers license). They are self employed family business while the food and package deliverers also have their 'own business'; in reality its to pay them less, have no severence package, no insurance, arrange their own tooling and vehicle, etc (ie. all the shit from gig economy). The problem is the government allows it while they could easily say if you don't get twice or triple minimum wage plus a top-down hierarchy you are not self employed. This clearly excludes the real consultant business as they earn more and also don't fall under top-down hierarchy. Another thing these deliverers should be allowed to is deliver for multiple companies. A self employed consultant picks their own clients, not the other way around unless there is things like confidentiality / conflict of interest.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#199

Post by zdragnar »

skulk wrote: post #189
bombcar wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people would consider a suggestion to live in the Midwest as about the same as a suggestion that they spend the rest of their life living in a decrepit sewer system.

Maybe you should try to understand why certain kinds of people (of, perhaps the non-white kind) would not want to move into an insular community?

Maybe if they visited, they'd find their assumptions to be unwarranted racism.

It isn't as diverse as some other parts of the country, but there's groups of people from all over the world. Within a 2 hour drive from me, you'll find enclaves from Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, Mexico and others.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#200

Post by slg »

woojoo666 wrote: post #185
slg wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These numbers don't add up. Someone making $80k in NY will be paying at least 15-20% in taxes. This hypothetical person would have a max of like $400 a month for all their non-housing living expenses. That isn't happening in a high COL state like NY.

I assumed 15% taxes, so 80k - 15k (taxes) - 40k (living expenses) = 25k

I guess I misread what you said. I would have sworn you said housing expenses and not living expenses.
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