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Gen Z does not dream of labor

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Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#211

Post by skulk »

zdragnar wrote: post #199
skulk wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you should try to understand why certain kinds of people (of, perhaps the non-white kind) would not want to move into an insular community?

Maybe if they visited, they'd find their assumptions to be unwarranted racism. It isn't as diverse as some other parts of the country, but there's groups of people from all over the world. Within a 2 hour drive from me, you'll find enclaves from Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, Mexico and others.

If not wanting to live in an enclave as a nominally second-class citizen is racist, then I don't know what to say. Let's not deny reality here, that's really what you end up being if you try to interact with the main racial group in a rural area, or at least the vast majority of them. It doesn't matter what race this happens to be, it's how people work.

I know an Englishman who lives in an Indonesian village (not an enclave). He is constantly reminded that while his presence is cherished, he isn't, and never will be "one of them." He still loves it, though, so there's that.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#212

Post by bombcar »

eulers_secret wrote: post #152
mgh2 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you live that is unaffordable?

I still live there, a suburb of Portland OR. I locked in a cheap apartment years ago that's now rent controlled, which makes my situation possible. I currently pay about half what new renters pay. Without it, I'd be stuck in wage-slavery anyways and couldn't take the time to self-improve like this. Moving is an option (my partner has restrictions: No states with anti-abortion laws, which removes many inexpensive plac…

Friends of mine who make a combined way less than you bought new construction across the river in Vancouver, WA.

Even staying just in the State of Oregon finds places under $200k (perhaps not the most desirable of building types, but certainly above a mobile home). But that may really put you in the "sticks" - south middle of Oregon is some of the most unpopulated land in the USA.

Rent-control may end up trapping you in another way; fear to move because of your current deal. Had a friend stay in a three-bedroom apartment long after he should have moved up to a house for just this reason.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#213

Post by deanCommie »

Solvitieg wrote: post #183
eulers_secret wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is part of why I left my job. I had the realization that my dream (homeownership/2 kids) was untenable with my income (~$135K TC) in my area. I could certainly get the credit for it, but my life would be one long hardship living under wage slavery, being house-poor, having little free time, paying exorbitantly to watch others raise my kids, and not having the opportunities I currently have... I kinda gave up on…

I currently have enough money saved to travel the world for 5 years. That's a long time. Imagine how much more fulfilling that journey would be than putting this money towards a lowend 1-bedroom condo in Vancouver and then working 20 years at a high-end career to pay it off. Insane proposition. VHCOL cities are not appealing anymore. I want out.

If your perspective on housing is "just need a place to live", then paying off a mortgage for 20 years is hardly a problem. You are tied down, yes, but if you have friends and family in the area and like where you live, it's hardly a problem - it's just a life.

(Of course this is different if the intention is "buy a place, wait until it rises in value, flip it, and repeat")

That said, you need to want to put down roots, and you need to like where you're putting those down. I love Vancouver, I've been here 20 years, I left for 5, and came back. This is where I want to raise my kids. But this is a highly privileged perspective backed by having a good well-paying job that lets me afford to live here (in a 3-bedroom condo in east van).

Still, travelling the world for 5 years sounds like a fantastic plan to figure out what you want to do in life and scouting out parts of the world that you can imagine living. That could mean finding something more rural, or finding a city more off the beaten path that you identify with that doesn't have international prestige and ridiculous VHCOL.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#214

Post by chasd00 »

rtlfe wrote: post #117
madaxe_again wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the thing. I know this sounds glib, but the barrier to entry is so low ($20 5th hand laptop will do just fine to do first-steps development), I can’t understand why the market isn’t flooded with coders. So many people say “oh I could never do what you do”, and I’m like “I’m a shaved ape who wanted to play computer games and accidentally ended up learning stuff, you absolutely can”. Then they just go on saying…

> I can’t understand why the market isn’t flooded with coders I was able to excel at CS in college because my parents shoved a DOS computer in front of me when I was 5 and challenged me with math and general problem solving at every opportunity. My whole childhood was basically debugging and critical thinking. If you didn't have that growing up, it's really hard to start learning the skills when you're 30.

As a counterpoint, I never even had a computer until sophomore year in college. I made it through CS and then about 20 years writing code. Now I’m more of a manager but still save a few things in the sprint for myself from time to time.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#215

Post by syngrog66 »

prediction: growing percentage of young Americans first "home" purchase will in fact be a car purchase. more and more will buy a vehicle they can live in

because home prices have boosted drastically, even rents are up, and with renting you throw cash away you could otherwise save towards buying a home

thus, a generation who expects and plans to live in cars

at least those not born with a silver spoon in their mouth or who otherwise can get high paying jobs. which describes the vast majority of American youth

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#216

Post by ushakov »

danielsokil wrote: post #167

I've been thinking a bit about this problem lately, And one thought is we could have a different structure for organizations, where everyone participating (employed) automatically becomes part of the company as a shareholder. However, it's not clear yet how many shares should a person hold? Can we relate the value a person brings to the amount of shares? This structure could motivate people to be part of a company, a…

i've been on exactly same thought for a long time now

the effect you get by offering ownership is that existing personell will be more motivated to work harder and stay at your company for longer (so that the shares can vest)

this still won't solve the problems described in the article however

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#217

Post by klyrs »

poutine wrote: post #71
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average house sold in 1946 cost $5.25K. The median salary at the time was $3K. The average house sold today costs $374K. The median salary is $51K. You can argue that those houses that were sold back then were smaller, but they were also made of vastly better materials than modern home construction, and it's not like people even have the opportunity of buying those smaller homes unless they want to live in a slum…

While housing has indeed gotten more expensive you can't compare absolute prices. First you're getting a vastly different product today than in 1946. Consumer demands are far higher too. Also to compare affordability the metric for most people would be the median percentage case of mortgage payments vs the persons take home pay. When measured this way it's been hovering around 30% for the past 40 years in the UK. htt…

> While housing has indeed gotten more expensive you can't compare absolute prices.

Horseshit. Homes built in 1946 are selling for millions of dollars, even if they're going to be torn down and rebuilt for marginal cost. You're not buying a house, you're buying the land and taking responsibility for everything on it.

And even then, the lumber you get out of such an old house is quite valuable virgin oldgrowth, a better quality product than you can buy at a lumber yard today.

And, to pick a nit... comparing the median income to median house price is an examination of relative price, not absolute.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#218

Post by draw_down »

cmckn wrote: post #127
eulers_secret wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is part of why I left my job. I had the realization that my dream (homeownership/2 kids) was untenable with my income (~$135K TC) in my area. I could certainly get the credit for it, but my life would be one long hardship living under wage slavery, being house-poor, having little free time, paying exorbitantly to watch others raise my kids, and not having the opportunities I currently have... I kinda gave up on…

Sounds like you haven’t given up on your ‘dream’ if you’re currently still grinding to attain it. Hate to break it to you, but many, many people raise kids and own a home with way less than $135k, even in your area. If you don’t want to attempt it because it’ll be hard, stressful, risky, etc.; maybe that’s worth reflecting on? Sometimes your standards/expectations are what need to change.

No post body was provided.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#219

Post by zo1 »

eulers_secret wrote: post #152
mgh2 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you live that is unaffordable?

I still live there, a suburb of Portland OR. I locked in a cheap apartment years ago that's now rent controlled, which makes my situation possible. I currently pay about half what new renters pay. Without it, I'd be stuck in wage-slavery anyways and couldn't take the time to self-improve like this. Moving is an option (my partner has restrictions: No states with anti-abortion laws, which removes many inexpensive plac…

That is an oddly-specific restriction your partner is demanding.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#220

Post by rtlfe »

ceeplusplus wrote: post #151
skulk wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. False. A plumber making $80k (US median seems to be around $60k) isn't going to be able to save up for a down payment if they're paying a typical mid-sized city's rent (~$1.2k a month). Not to mention housing costs going up during this period of saving up.

At 80k your post-tax takehome is $5000/mo even filing single in a high tax state. Take out $400 for health insurance, $800 for car+insurance, $1200 for rent, and you've still got $2500 for food, miscellaneous spending, Roth IRA, etc. Even if all those costs come to $2000 - unlikely, since the Roth contribution limit is $6k / year - you're still left with $500/month in savings. And that's assuming your partner doesn't…

I hope this person never has a kid. Enjoy your rent doubling to get enough space and either losing your partner's income or spending $3k a month on day care. Plus whatever crappy insurance you're getting for $400 a month is going to leave with $10k+ in bills for just birthing the kid.
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