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A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

theatlantic.com

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Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#571

Post by AussieWog93 »

dre85 wrote: post #550
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for writing this. I have a question for you, since my marriage ended for reasons similar to this author's. Why is the wife's desire more important than his? In other words, why must the husband live the way the wife wants and compromise is not acceptable (especially if they share cleaning responsibilities) -- compromise could look like "sometimes I do it her way, sometimes I do it my way." Why can't a partner…

I'm in a marriage and I struggle with this same question. I sometimes feel like the things my wife cares about are essentially endless. Like if I bend to "her way" and put effort into consistently placing the dirty cup in the dishwasher, next week something new comes up. Then it's the clothes on the floor of my side of the bed or not hanging my jacket or not putting my shoes away perfectly in the closet. At times I g…

>Like if I bend to "her way" and put effort into consistently placing the dirty cup in the dishwasher, next week something new comes up. Then it's the clothes on the floor of my side of the bed or not hanging my jacket or not putting my shoes away perfectly in the closet. At times I get the sensation that it just becomes like waking on eggshells to constantly mitigate somebody's upsetness of irrelevant (to me) things.

I don't understand the complaint here. It sounds like your wife is trying to get you, incrementally, to act like a responsible adult. This is what a good partner does.

The more interesting question is why you want to remain living like a slob in a messy environment?

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#572

Post by lhorie »

giantg2 wrote: post #541
lhorie wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that kind of the point, to show to the partner that you have expectations for how certain things are done in a certain way for a certain reason that they might not have had an appreciation for. It can in fact be an avenue to dig into the deeper communication issues, e.g. if there's a pattern of downplaying expressed concerns or assumptions without actual communications, it's gonna surface real quick if the part…

Sure, for small stuff that makes sense for a one or two time experience. They recommended 60 days. Eating preprocessed frozen diners for two months could be unenjoyable to one party and not the other. They might not care about the added cost too. So it could work if they try to stick to the rules. If they just don't care, then that might suck. Then for the car issue... even one large mistake could cost thousands or l…

Yeah, the way my wife and and I go about rotating tasks usually has one person explaining/hand-holding to whatever degree is appropriate precisely because damaging goods isn't a desirable outcome. As an exercise, it can still surface issues even without full on cold turkey switches, e.g. does one tend to forget/downplay/skimp things that were already covered previously, is the communication actionable/respectful/unambiguous/etc, do complaints surface verbally, does the taught person actually take away any lessons they didn't know/consider/appreciate before, etc.

For example, the junk food example doesn't need to literally put you in the red, it can just lead to you complaining the food is crap and hopefully imparting that food not being crap is important to you.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#573

Post by op00to »

weldedtogether wrote: post #388
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never heard of men complaining about their female partners being untidy with household things except in the case where they simply do nothing (and that's rare), is that common where you are. My father did all the washing up in our house growing up, and mum did most of the cooking, but he never once annotated me for leaving dirty dishes whilst my mother regularly would complain. Almost every married woman I know…

Anecdotal evidence as it is, I'd like to vouch for the fact that I am usually the "mother" in this scenario. Dirty dishes being left out drives me nuts, especially if it's overnight. When I wake up and come out of the bedroom to a clean house, I'm relaxed. Waking up to a house with dishes still around from the night before can set a baseline stressed (need to do this still) mood for a hefty chunk of my day. On the ot…

My anxiety manifests in similar ways. I "do the dishes" (or whatever annoying task it is that tweaks my anxiety in the morning) before I wind down for the night. I take control of my own happiness.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#574

Post by Twounwhe »

throwawayboise wrote: post #503
js2 wrote: post #445

A lot of folks are misinterpreting this article, or just using it as a jumping off point to get something off their chest. This article is not literally about the dirty dish. It's not even about compromise. Rather, the article is really about having healthy communication with your partner. The author's wife was trying to communicate to him: "when you do X, I feel like Y, and it hurts me." But he wasn't hearing it. No…

I can pretty much guarantee that the wife did not say "When you leave a dirty dish by the sink, I feel like you won't do a simple thing that you know will make me happier, and that hurts me and causes me to doubt that you would do anyhing for me that required more effort." Instead, she just griped about the dish. Men are not that perceptive unless they've already been educated about this. Women need to be explicit ab…

I will not venture a guess as to whether the author's wife articulated her feelings and needs clearly because I do not know either of them.

However, I can say that in my own life, I have been quite explicit about how I was feeling multiple times. In my own words: "When you {seemingly insignificant thing} that I've mentioned bothers me, it makes me feel like you don't care about my concerns, and only care about yourself. That hurts me, and because I've already mentioned this, it makes me doubt that you have any concern for my feelings." (Somewhere around the dozenth time, append "or my wellbeing.")

Even so, it usually took repeating half a dozen times or more before my significant other exhibited any reaction beyond dismissal (i.e. moving past "It's just a cup. It shouldn't bother you."). This happened in three separate LTRs.

Obviously my anecdote doesn't prove anything... except that "women need to be explicit about how they are feeling" is insufficient (though necessary) in at least a non-zero % of communication.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#575

Post by op00to »

biomcgary wrote: post #422
scarby2 wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's not that the husband expects his wife to do all the chores, it's that he doesn't actually believe the chores need to be done. This doesn't get said enough. It also not just wife vs husband - we all have different standards and it's a lesson that needs to be learned that usually someone isn't being malicious it's just not easy to force yourself to notice something if it's fine by your standards but not by your…

I have certain expectations how our home should function, but I don't expect my partner to do the work of meeting those expectations. I put them on myself. My partner has certain expectations of how the home should function. They should put those expectations on themselves. Work toward shared expectations should be shared. I would assert that when one partner works disproportionately toward meeting the unshared expec…

> My partner has certain expectations of how the home should function. They should put those expectations on themselves. Work toward shared expectations should be shared.

Three excellent rules for a successful marriage.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#576

Post by dragonwriter »

op00to wrote: post #567
munk-a wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s never really about the dishes. The dishes are just a thing in physical space. I'd clarify that sometimes it is actually about the dishes. As someone with ADHD being in a living space with clutter slows me down and perpetuates more clutter. My solution to that is to never generate that sort of clutter - it leads to a destructive cycle I've identified in myself. If the person I'm sharing space with starts that c…

If dirty dishes trigger you, then you need to make sure the dishes get done. You are the principal person responsible for your own well being. You shouldn't force someone to do your bidding simply because you're triggered. I say this as someone who suffers from severe anxiety, and has to work very hard to not bully my family around to accommodate my anxiety.

> If dirty dishes trigger you, then you need to make sure the dishes get done.

Eliminating a net source of dirty dishes is an efficient way of doing that.

If you want to be in a relationship with someone, and they are triggered by dirty dishes, you might need to consider their needs in order to realize yours.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#577

Post by madrox »

nineplay wrote: post #192

I'm the messy one ( and the wife ) in our situation and this article has made me think about my relationship. My takeaway is that I can sit and pout that my partner shouldn't be overreacting to a glass and I can sit and pout and say why should I be the one to change, why can't he change. Or I can stay married. If I'm going to get caught up in my marriage being 'fair' I'm going to lose. There have to be times when I '…

This, I think, is the heart of advice heard so often: "don't keep score." If balancing our emotional checkbook is more important than harmony with our partner, we care about something more than our marriage. I'm no expert, but I think caring about anything more than our marriage is how marriages end.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#578

Post by imchillyb »

beckler wrote: post #243

About 10 years ago, I had a internship at Newell Rubbermaid. As part of the experience, the entire group of interns across all the brands got to have lunch with the CEO and basically ask him anything we wanted. At some point, someone asked about his biggest regret. We all expected some business blunder, but he said that he was offered an executive position by Kraft to lead their Asian segment, and that his wife reall…

--silent room--

Dumb, snarky, about to be fired, me: "So. What you're saying is... She's single?"

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#579

Post by op00to »

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #303
treis wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Projecting a lot, I feel like this guy is just a narcissist. Kind of making it all about him but in a way that doesn't portray him in a truly negative light. Also, guessing his ex-wife probably doesn't want a book about her divorce to be part of the national chatter.

[..] Also, guessing his ex-wife probably doesn't want a book about her divorce to be part of the national chatter.[..] This. I was thinking the same thing too. Shouldn’t there be a law against this? If I were his ex-wife, I would have sued his sorry ass for airing marriage laundry. But that’s just me.

No, there should not be a law about this. What possible reason would there be for being prevented by law to talk about your life? When is it OK to talk, and when is it not?

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#580

Post by brewdad »

dijonman2 wrote: post #552
nineplay wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She's providing for the household by taking care of everything in their lives outside of his specific business functions. He should be making every reasonable effort to support her.

Money isn’t free. The person earning needs to be supported. Running a house is work but I wholeheartedly reject the notion of someone both working and supplicating their partner. This is abuse.

If you think this story represents abuse, I truly hope you aren't married and never do.
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