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A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

theatlantic.com

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Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#511

Post by parentheses »

js2 wrote: post #445

A lot of folks are misinterpreting this article, or just using it as a jumping off point to get something off their chest. This article is not literally about the dirty dish. It's not even about compromise. Rather, the article is really about having healthy communication with your partner. The author's wife was trying to communicate to him: "when you do X, I feel like Y, and it hurts me." But he wasn't hearing it. No…

Thanks for sharing this. I feel like what you're describing could be my family 20+ years from now. I applaud you for changing for your spouse and hope I can be so wise to listen in these moments.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#512

Post by chmod600 »

The author still doesn't seem to quite get it.

The problem is that seeing the dish was one of his wife's primary interactions with him, and it was a negative one. She doesn't see him most of the day, I'm guessing, but she still sees the one glass on the otherwise pristine countertop and knows it's him. It causes a slight bad mood, which carries over to the time she does see him, which then puts him in a bad mood.

The solution is to literally count good interactions you have with your partner during a day or week. It could be by being unexpectedly tidy or with small surprises or even just being excited and happy and lighting up a room for no reason. If that count starts to average less than one, your are in real trouble.

What won't work is driving the small annoyances down to zero. Sorry, ain't gonna work. There's always something to be annoyed about.

That being said, if your partner seems to care a lot about one thing, at least make some effort just because you care. But do it because you want them to be happy, not to systematically eliminate possible causes of divorce, because it's not gonna save you.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#513

Post by treis »

raydev wrote: post #401
treis wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did. Is there a particular point you're trying to make here?

He explicitly talks about his failures at the end. I don't think a narcissist would get that far. Although you did say you're projecting, so maybe this is not useful.

He talks about his failures in a way that minimizes his failings. There's nothing wrong with him. If only he knew this one simple trick then he'd have a perfect marriage!

Even if his overall thesis is correct, I bet you that his ex would not cite the glass as the top example. There's probably much worse stories that make him look like a giant asshole.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#514

Post by lubesGordi »

lhorie wrote: post #102
Dobbs wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about the dishes. The dishes are just a symptom of the unequal divide of emotional labour in most relationships. Even in relationships where both parents work full time more often than not the majority of the mental and physical burden of running the house tends to fall onto the woman. Of course this isn't an absolute, but it does tend to hold true. You can see this at the outbreak of COVID where many wome…

Yeah, gonna have to agree with you here. The guy appears to be downplaying his role by trying to make it a narrative about glasses by the dishwasher, but if you were to hear the wife's perspective being boiled down to "I am not your maid", that would put things in a very different light. Then, it's not about glasses or socks or messy storage spaces or how inconsequential any of those seem to any particular person, it…

No, it's always the person who isn't communicating their wishes and building up resentment over time that is at fault. If they were communicating their wishes and the other person was saying no, I'm not doing that, well then that's something different.

If you say, 'this is important to me' and I don't naturally see it as important, it's my job to take your perspective into account. If I actually care about you, this is a non-issue (I don't want you to suffer!). If a million things are 'important to you' and you need everything done now, well then there's reasonableness issues there. These issues can get sliced a million different ways and its the emotional intelligence matchup (or corresponding sacrifice) of the two parties that's going to decide which way it goes.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#515

Post by captaincaveman »

Dobbs wrote: post #39
chacham15 wrote: post #37

> I now understand that when I left that glass there, it hurt my wife—literally causing pain—because it felt to her as if I had just said, “Hey. I don’t respect you or value your thoughts and opinions. Not taking four seconds to put my glass in the dishwasher is more important to me than you are.” I think that here lies the issue. Is this the only way that you show that you value their thoughts / opinions? If so, the…

It isn't just about respect. It is about you leaving work for your partner to do even though you could have done it yourself. This is about emotional labour and the uneven divide of household jobs.

But I don't think in this case he said there was uneven divide of work. Also he wasn't leaving work for her to do, he did the work just not on her schedule, it was the wife who had the issue of the glass being there until end of day.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#516

Post by jachee »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #493
js2 wrote: post #445

A lot of folks are misinterpreting this article, or just using it as a jumping off point to get something off their chest. This article is not literally about the dirty dish. It's not even about compromise. Rather, the article is really about having healthy communication with your partner. The author's wife was trying to communicate to him: "when you do X, I feel like Y, and it hurts me." But he wasn't hearing it. No…

Thanks for writing this. I have a question for you, since my marriage ended for reasons similar to this author's. Why is the wife's desire more important than his? In other words, why must the husband live the way the wife wants and compromise is not acceptable (especially if they share cleaning responsibilities) -- compromise could look like "sometimes I do it her way, sometimes I do it my way." Why can't a partner…

When you really, truly love someone, their desires are more important than your own, in your own mind, too.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#517

Post by SunlightEdge »

chmod600 wrote: post #512

The author still doesn't seem to quite get it. The problem is that seeing the dish was one of his wife's primary interactions with him, and it was a negative one. She doesn't see him most of the day, I'm guessing, but she still sees the one glass on the otherwise pristine countertop and knows it's him. It causes a slight bad mood, which carries over to the time she does see him, which then puts him in a bad mood. The…

I think this is very useful advice. It partly reminds of laughing therapy. Where people laugh continuously for 2 minutes (fake laugh). But what can happen is that you start to genuinely feel happy and laugh.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#518

Post by captaincaveman »

greenonions wrote: post #111
erikstarck wrote: post #73

If you haven't read "The Five Love Languages" yet and are in a relationship, then I highly suggest you do. It might save it before it's too late. And just to make this slightly more startup-related as well: as team members, we also have "love languages", ways we communicate respect and appreciation to each other. Sometimes we speak different languages and don't understand each other. That breaks the team.

Also recommend this book. It's a simple system to understand your relationship easier, and it acts as a starting point. As an example from the article, if the author recognized from the beginning that putting the dishes into the dishwasher made his wife feel loved, he would do so, his wife would be happy, and he would feel happy, starting a virtuous cycle.

I don't think it would make her feel loved though, as in her view it was the norm, by putting it away you could say she didn't feel disrespected by him, however, it could also be viewed as it was her having disrespect of him for his behaviour ... we of course can only speculate.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#519

Post by usefulcat »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #498
js2 wrote: post #445

A lot of folks are misinterpreting this article, or just using it as a jumping off point to get something off their chest. This article is not literally about the dirty dish. It's not even about compromise. Rather, the article is really about having healthy communication with your partner. The author's wife was trying to communicate to him: "when you do X, I feel like Y, and it hurts me." But he wasn't hearing it. No…

We are always told "Accept your significant other - do not try to change them." Why does not that apply here?

There's an enormous difference between asking a person to change who they are versus how they behave.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#520

Post by phendrenad2 »

frontman1988 wrote: post #484
phendrenad2 wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth it though. Consider the single male life. You will have no friends, because your male friends will all get wives and girlfriends, who will dissuade them from hanging out with you, the weird bachelor. You will be seen as weird at work because all of your coworkers will be married, and people don't like an outlier. So the cost is high, so what? You could get divorced, lose half of everything you own, and hav…

You can be unmarried and be in a relationship. Marriage is bondage. It's primarily a feminine desire of women to seek stability for their offsprings. Men are better off having multiple partners and having shorter relationships. Also as the weird bachelor you don't have to hang out with your coworkers, there is usually far more exciting company available.

I'm but a layman when it comes to interpersonal relationships, but it's my understanding that society puts pressure on people to get married. So while yes, in theory, you can be in a relationship and not married, in practice the social pressure will eventually push you, or, much more likely, the other person in the relationship, to want marriage. So your only recourse is to jump from relationship to relationship and break them off each time an ultimatum is reached. Breaking off relationships takes an emotional toll on people, so it's not a viable strategy for many people.
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