A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem • Hacker News Board

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#101

Post by david38 » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 3:30 PM UTC

Dobbs wrote: post #33

DanHulton wrote: post #22

There is a whole other potential article out there that could be written from the ex-wife's side - "My marriage died because I couldn't make this one simple sacrifice". And I suspect both would just as incorrect, at least by omission. The glass thing is a useful article hook, but it's unlikely that it encompasses the sole reason their marriage fell apart. There is a deeper issue here, about neither side being willing…

This isn't about the dishes. The dishes are just a symptom of the unequal divide of emotional labour in most relationships. Even in relationships where both parents work full time more often than not the majority of the mental and physical burden of running the house tends to fall onto the woman. Of course this isn't an absolute, but it does tend to hold true. You can see this at the outbreak of COVID where many wome…

It’s not an unequal divide in emotional labor. He is doing what he sees fit, but she requires much more.

If I’m content to live at level 10, so do level 5 work, I’m not being lazy. If she requires living at level 20, she will then need to do level 15 work.

She will view him as slacking off, but in reality, he isn’t. They just have different standards. It is no more correct for her to force him to level 20 as for him to force her to level 10. It’s simply an incompatibility that they didn’t consider when marrying.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#102

Post by lhorie » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 3:30 PM UTC

Dobbs wrote: post #33

DanHulton wrote: post #22

There is a whole other potential article out there that could be written from the ex-wife's side - "My marriage died because I couldn't make this one simple sacrifice". And I suspect both would just as incorrect, at least by omission. The glass thing is a useful article hook, but it's unlikely that it encompasses the sole reason their marriage fell apart. There is a deeper issue here, about neither side being willing…

This isn't about the dishes. The dishes are just a symptom of the unequal divide of emotional labour in most relationships. Even in relationships where both parents work full time more often than not the majority of the mental and physical burden of running the house tends to fall onto the woman. Of course this isn't an absolute, but it does tend to hold true. You can see this at the outbreak of COVID where many wome…

Yeah, gonna have to agree with you here. The guy appears to be downplaying his role by trying to make it a narrative about glasses by the dishwasher, but if you were to hear the wife's perspective being boiled down to "I am not your maid", that would put things in a very different light. Then, it's not about glasses or socks or messy storage spaces or how inconsequential any of those seem to any particular person, it's about who has to pick up the slack and why.

If anyone here is a guy finding themselves siding with the guy in this story, one way to "see things from the other side" is to imagine a scenario that is traditionally reversed in terms of gender roles. For example a scenario where your partner leaves hair clogging the bathtub and you have to clean up after them every time. And go buy drano and get dirty plunging the drain for 5 minutes every once in a blue moon. After repeatedly complaining about the issue for over a decade. "What do you mean I never clean up, I do my best to try to remember to do it. It's not a big deal. The pipes being old aren't my fault" they say every time. Be honest and tell me your immediate armchair solution isn't to bail out of that relationship.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#103

Post by mswen » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 3:30 PM UTC

NortySpock wrote: post #48

"Is this hill worth dieing on?" is a question I occasionally ask myself. Other ways to put it: "Would taking 10 seconds to do this now make my wife 1% less stressed?" (If so, do the thing to make her less stressed.) "Is it worth starting a fight vs spending the same time just fixing the problem?" "Would spending $COST_OF_THING make my wife happy for a day / make a fond memory of us together?" (Hence why I encourage m…

Your comment reminds me of the following. My wife and I have been married over 30 years now. Our total household is 7 persons.

A couple years ago, my wife was complaining once again about someone using scissors and not bringing them back to their proper storage place. "How can we have 3 pair of scissors and none of them are here when I need to use one?" This didn't bother me but hearing her complain about it did bother me. After a couple attempts to reason, "it isn't that big of deal to track a pair down" or "how often do we really use them?", I decided that abundance was a better solution. I found a 4 pack of decent scissors for about $12.

So for $12 dollars I have never heard that complaint again because even if someone walks off with one and doesn't get it back right away there are several more. So my wife doesn't doesn't experience that frustration and it keeps her from getting fixated on something as insignificant as the location of pair of scissors. And, I have already decided that if it happens again I will buy another pack. They are surprisingly good scissors for $3 each.

I think my broader point was that we as humans are sometimes irrational about certain annoyances in life. And, if I can find a way to spend some money and just solve the issue that is probably a good use of money.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#104

Post by cgriswald » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 3:30 PM UTC

Dobbs wrote: post #33

DanHulton wrote: post #22

There is a whole other potential article out there that could be written from the ex-wife's side - "My marriage died because I couldn't make this one simple sacrifice". And I suspect both would just as incorrect, at least by omission. The glass thing is a useful article hook, but it's unlikely that it encompasses the sole reason their marriage fell apart. There is a deeper issue here, about neither side being willing…

This isn't about the dishes. The dishes are just a symptom of the unequal divide of emotional labour in most relationships. Even in relationships where both parents work full time more often than not the majority of the mental and physical burden of running the house tends to fall onto the woman. Of course this isn't an absolute, but it does tend to hold true. You can see this at the outbreak of COVID where many wome…

The problem with the marriage was that he ignored all these things that were various levels of important to his wife rather than take the opportunity to show her that she was important to him.

Unequal division of labor could explain why the dishes were important to her; but that's not in the article and it's not what the article about.

I think an unequal division of labor is largely orthogonal. In my failed marriage, I carried the greater burden by far. Yet it was my ex who had the thought "you don't do X, so you don't love me."

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#105

Post by greenonions » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 3:31 PM UTC

hackeraccount wrote: post #35

Marriage is like kids. What does it expect? Blood. I remember a guy who planned to join the Marines when I was a kid. Every time I saw him he was doing push-ups. All the time. A neighbor - who was ex-military or maybe even a Marine himself - told me that was all well and good but had limited utility. If you go can do 100 push-ups when you go through boot camp they'll make you do 110. They want blood.

No post body was provided.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#106

Post by david38 » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 3:32 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #85

Dobbs wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about the dishes. The dishes are just a symptom of the unequal divide of emotional labour in most relationships. Even in relationships where both parents work full time more often than not the majority of the mental and physical burden of running the house tends to fall onto the woman. Of course this isn't an absolute, but it does tend to hold true. You can see this at the outbreak of COVID where many wome…

"Even in relationships where both parents work full time more often than not the majority of the mental and physical burden of running the house tends to fall onto the woman." I'd love to see the data on this.

Not all full time work is equal. I’ll bet whoever has the more draining job cares a lot less about the household.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#107

Post by vmception » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 3:32 PM UTC

DanHulton wrote: post #22

There is a whole other potential article out there that could be written from the ex-wife's side - "My marriage died because I couldn't make this one simple sacrifice". And I suspect both would just as incorrect, at least by omission. The glass thing is a useful article hook, but it's unlikely that it encompasses the sole reason their marriage fell apart. There is a deeper issue here, about neither side being willing…

Another thing many couples miss is positive reinforcement.

Many people fall into the trap of ignoring the desired behavior and chastising the undesired behavior.

Because the desired behavior is so normal and benign to one party. But its clearly not to the other party.

If the glass was in the dish washer or washed and put away, I could imagine many couples experiencing no conditioning towards repeating that behavior.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#108

Post by xboxnolifes » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 3:32 PM UTC

bena wrote: post #80

igetspam wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems as though people are focusing on the hook and not the core argument. The author clearly states his marriage failed from "death by a thousand papercuts" and this glass-by-the-sink is an example of not understanding their spouse.

It's because the hook is a real bad example. He's not entirely in the wrong on that one. While I will trust his judgment that there were other problems and that he was in the wrong in those, the glass was one where she should have given in.

> the glass was one where she should have given in

Why is that the case?

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#109

Post by vxNsr » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 3:33 PM UTC

jrm4 wrote: post #95

jancsika wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I like the idea that a really good relationship is a 60/40 compromise, where both sides are struggling to be the 60. It sounds like both sides of this marriage were struggling to be the 40. I'm picturing a therapist helping a refugee from Objectivism by suggesting to "compete on making the greater compromise, within a threshold" because that's easier to explain to them than cooperation.

I'd take this even further. Sometimes it's 50/50. Sometimes 60/40, Sometimes 100/0. You just have to comfortable with that's how it is.

Personally I’d rather lose 100% of the disagreement some of time (i.e. 50%) than part (40%, 50%, 60%) of the argument every time.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#110

Post by em-bee » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 3:34 PM UTC

throwaway881818 wrote: post #78

What a painful article. Reminds me of my relationship with my mother living with her as an adult because I got very sick. She would fight tooth and nail for an apology over things like this. Even if it was a minor thing that only happened once. In the end, she would consistently make me feel like a horrible person even though I _did_ contribute to helping in the house, if not perfectly. My emotional hurt was never ac…

you can talk about this with your partner before getting married. it could even be worth it for both of you to talk to a marriage counselor before getting married. if you are open about your experience and your worries for your relationship you will be able to find an understanding partner.