A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem • Hacker News Board

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#71

Post by xtracto » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 3:12 PM UTC

erik_landerholm wrote: post #53

Been married for 20 years almost…we never fight. We both do things that aren’t optimal, but we give each other the benefit of the doubt, we talk about everything, we don’t step on each other’s areas of responsibility, we don’t speak harshly to each other and we are best friends. I can’t ever imagine being in a the situation described above. I mean all the individual things happen to us leaving dishes, muddy whatever…

I love seeing elderly couples. If you get into the house of old folks couples that have been married for 30 or 40 years the "peacefulness" you perceive in their relationship is great. They have learned that nothing really matters. A broken glass? some mud in the house? a stack of books/magazines in the floor? Who freaking cares? They have each other and they have had each other for 30+ years and they have each other until they die.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#72

Post by Jiro » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 3:12 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #51

The-Bus wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus, they protect you in the eventuality of an alien attack. Make sure you keep a bat around too.

I still want an explanation as to how the aliens in that movie managed to miss that 70% of the planet is covered by a deadly poison, and that it literally falls from the sky in most places.

There's the theory that the aliens are really demons and it's not water they're vulnerable to, but holy water.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#73

Post by erikstarck » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 3:13 PM UTC

If you haven't read "The Five Love Languages" yet and are in a relationship, then I highly suggest you do. It might save it before it's too late.

And just to make this slightly more startup-related as well: as team members, we also have "love languages", ways we communicate respect and appreciation to each other. Sometimes we speak different languages and don't understand each other. That breaks the team.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#74

Post by snarf21 » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 3:14 PM UTC

DanHulton wrote: post #22

There is a whole other potential article out there that could be written from the ex-wife's side - "My marriage died because I couldn't make this one simple sacrifice". And I suspect both would just as incorrect, at least by omission. The glass thing is a useful article hook, but it's unlikely that it encompasses the sole reason their marriage fell apart. There is a deeper issue here, about neither side being willing…

Divorced and looking back, the root cause of this (in my experience) is a lack of empathy. Love is easy to come by while empathy requires walking in someone else's shoes. I understand this Same Fight because I lived through that. It is never about that thing, it is about not being seen. As the author is processing his divorce, it is good he sees that there is value in doing something selflessly. However, I can't help but wonder if he isn't missing the forest for the trees. Maybe this man truly doesn't care about order/structure/cleanliness in any area of life, but I have to imagine there is at least one area that they are meticulous about. Whether that is his tools in the garage, his golf clubs, his home theater setup, etc. Would he have reacted in the same "... in the grand scheme of things, does it really matter?" nonchalance if his wife started leaving screwdriver in the bathroom and hammers in the living room or if his golf clubs were thrown on the floor under bags of trash? It feels like he stopped after he learned the first lesson examining his divorce and didn't finish.

I think a lot of people would be well served to make a simple list of the life tasks that each partner currently performs. Then (where work schedules are possible), switch for 60 days. Anyone can grab groceries one day and it is no big deal. Force the other person to plan weeks of meals, keep the pantry stocked, etc. shines a bigger light on the unseen work and value each partner is providing. I learned this lesson the hard way and am better for it. Empathy is hard won and we need more of it. Apologies to my ex-wife for not being the person I didn't yet know I could be.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#75

Post by toomuchtodo » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 3:15 PM UTC

bombcar wrote: post #69

Cerium wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years ago I learned this lesson about marriage while on a trip in South Western China. I joined a tour group to see a mountain for a few days. My party was six and the van sat eight, so the driver got another couple to join us. They were fascinating. We learned over meals together that they were an arraigned marriage. At the time I had extremely negative views around the practice, thanks to growing up in the USA wher…

This is a very important lesson - the chance of finding a "perfect" partner is vanishingly small if considered in the normal view - but the chance of finding someone who is willing to work together is higher. And most marriages are "arranged" in some way or another, we just like to pretend that random chance plays little part and somehow we've got it down to a science.

I can't recommend this book enough on the topic. TLDR Women are more picky then Men in the courtship marketplace, and finding a partner with matching values is most important to growing and staying together. People expect a fairy tale, when they're signing up for a job (relationships require work and effort).

A quote from the author 10 years post publishing: “I think the book is really, ironically, about having higher standards about the things that matter, like the character qualities, generosity, kindness, reliability, and not getting so hung up on things like, you know, whether you’re going to go on a second date with a guy because of how he dressed.”

https://smile.amazon.com/Marry-Him-Case-Settling-Enough/dp/0... (Marry Him: The Case for Settling for Mr. Good Enough)

https://openlibrary.org/books/OL23687614M/Marry_him

The Atlantic piece that was the genesis for the book: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/03/marry-h...

https://jezebel.com/lori-gottliebs-marry-him-was-always-a-ca...

EDIT: @300bps (HN throttling, can't reply directly) Indeed. The book covers exactly this (census data for the dating marketplace and the dynamic between genders as age brackets tick upwards). The market is great for women 21-30, and it rapidly declines after 35. You can borrow the book from the Internet Archive with the library link I tossed in this comment for more context.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#76

Post by dkersten » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 3:16 PM UTC

I once saw the marriage advice that everybody, no matter how great their relationship is, should meet with a marriage/relationship counsellor on a regular basis, because, that way, any issues the two of you may have gets dealt with while its still a small thing and is never given a chance to turn into a big deal. Doing it with a counsellor means you have a safe space with someone who knows how to deal with issue during which you can work out problems, before they turn into real problems.

I'm not married, so I dunno if it works, but it sure sounds like sensible advice at least.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#77

Post by snapcaster » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 3:16 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #51

The-Bus wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus, they protect you in the eventuality of an alien attack. Make sure you keep a bat around too.

I still want an explanation as to how the aliens in that movie managed to miss that 70% of the planet is covered by a deadly poison, and that it literally falls from the sky in most places.

Because it was _holy_ water that damaged them because they are demons not aliens in the movie. There is actually no scene in that movie of a spaceship or anything that indicates it's aliens

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#78

Post by throwaway881818 » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 3:17 PM UTC

What a painful article.

Reminds me of my relationship with my mother living with her as an adult because I got very sick.

She would fight tooth and nail for an apology over things like this. Even if it was a minor thing that only happened once. In the end, she would consistently make me feel like a horrible person even though I _did_ contribute to helping in the house, if not perfectly. My emotional hurt was never accepted as valid, but anything that would trigger my mom was considered huge. It felt so one-sided.

I was eventually asked to leave my parents house. As a single guy with health issues that make getting by tough, the sort of relationships issues described in this article makes me despair about ever getting married, even though it is something I'd very much like.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#79

Post by justin_oaks » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 3:18 PM UTC

ay wrote: post #16

bluefirebrand wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the opposite side, if you don't like something that your partner does, and they don't seem to think it's a big deal, maybe take a step back and re-evaluate if it's really something that you need to be bothered by. If it is actually a problem, then yes, insist on it being fixed. If it is actually minor, maybe adjust your expectations and get over it. After all, that's also a form of listening and adjusting yourself…

My biggest takeaway is you can never really “insist on getting it fixed” without the damage to the relationship. You can state how it is important to you, explain why, and hope that the partner initiates the change to themselves. There is a subtle difference between the two; “push” vs “pull”, if you will.

I've heard it said as "Love requests; it never demands"

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#80

Post by bena » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 3:19 PM UTC

igetspam wrote: post #38

jugg1es wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that what the author is saying? The deeper problem was that the wife felt that the authors' inability to do something so simple for her sake was indicative of disrespect. Not acknowledging that your partner is worth a couple seconds of consideration is a pretty deep problem. The author probably demonstrated this disrespect in multiple ways, but the glass by the sink is a succinct way of summarizing the whole pr…

It seems as though people are focusing on the hook and not the core argument. The author clearly states his marriage failed from "death by a thousand papercuts" and this glass-by-the-sink is an example of not understanding their spouse.

It's because the hook is a real bad example. He's not entirely in the wrong on that one. While I will trust his judgment that there were other problems and that he was in the wrong in those, the glass was one where she should have given in.