A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem • Hacker News Board

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#281

Post by steveBK123 » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 5:56 PM UTC

cloudier wrote: post #260

krona wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As though the thoughts and feelings of another person are as predictable and consequential as the laws of physics. I wish.

I agree that the thoughts and feelings of other people in general are difficult to predict. But a person you marry is often someone you spend a lot of time around and hence whose thoughts and feelings can be predicted to some extent - because you see them in different situations, then see their reactions and talk to them about their thoughts and feelings. In this specific case, the author denies that the consequences…

Yes this is classic human psychology.

I did a bad thing - well I didn't intend to do it, so I'm still good/right.

Someone else did a bad thing - they are a bad person.

I should be measured by my intents, not my actions or outcomes.

Others should be measured by their outcomes, because thats obviously what they intended.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#282

Post by exolymph » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 5:57 PM UTC

RobertRoberts wrote: post #235

belval wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly from the description you give, I wouldn't assign blame but it was probably the right call to break it off. 6 hours arguments that need to happen right now are a pretty big red flag...

I worked from home for many years (before it was popular) and I had a family too. This kind of things happened to me and my wife a lot, hours of arguing while I should have been working. You can work through it, you just have to care enough. We no longer have arguments longer than maybe 20 minutes now. It can just be personality types and where you are in life. But a valuable person in your life? You work through tha…

Or maybe you and your wife don't funge with every other pair of individuals in the whole world? Some people truly aren't compatible and make each other miserable.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#283

Post by JasonFruit » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 5:58 PM UTC

An accurate title might be, "A dirty dish by the sink can reveal a big marriage problem". That is, a succeeding marriage includes strategies to deal with such things, and provides compensations for minor issues that can't be resolved, but a marriage that can't resolve them and does not offer sufficient compensating value will fail.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#284

Post by trelane » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 5:59 PM UTC

raldi wrote: post #29

ay wrote: post #8

It’s very simple. If something is minor for you but your partner prompts you extensively that it triggers them - change yourself. The willingness to listen and change yourself is what signals your love. Because everything else is much easier.

“I like leaving my glass by the sink, but I know you really hate it. Tell you what, I’ll stop doing it (which is not a concession that it’s wrong) as an act of love for you.” Then they express gratitude, and before you know it, you’ll get a favor like that back on something you really care about.

> before you know it, you’ll get a favor like that back on something you really care about.

That is not at all guaranteed. Personally, I'd by surprised if it were commonly correct.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#285

Post by scarby2 » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 5:59 PM UTC

em-bee wrote: post #256

belval wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly from the description you give, I wouldn't assign blame but it was probably the right call to break it off. 6 hours arguments that need to happen right now are a pretty big red flag...

an unresolved argument (if it's a serious one) makes it difficult for me to focus on work. (as a programmer and sysadmin, being distracted can be dangerous) if it happens in the evening i also can't sleep. so either way the day is ruined. the solution then is obviously to learn to resolve arguments in a short time. actually, resolving the argument itself is not even the issue, but knowing that we still love each othe…

> actually, resolving the argument itself is not even the issue, but knowing that we still love each other is what matters.

So much this. Having been taking classes and reading up on intentional/effective communication strategies for relationships one of the key aspects is having a way to say "i love you and acknowledge your grievance however i do not have the time, energy or emotional strength to discuss this now" this can be distilled down to a phrase, maybe just "pause" or a gesture followed by some kind of display of affection.

It's also critical that the other partner respects it. There's very little that's more damaging and less productive than continuing to argue with someone who has mentally checked out.

My ex would yell at me (red flag) until i just couldn't anymore, not listen to any requests for breaks (another red flag) then physically prevent anyone from leaving the room until she was satisfied (huge red flag) - even if you had to go to work.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#286

Post by RobertRoberts » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 6:00 PM UTC

AlanYx wrote: post #255

RobertRoberts wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked from home for many years (before it was popular) and I had a family too. This kind of things happened to me and my wife a lot, hours of arguing while I should have been working. You can work through it, you just have to care enough. We no longer have arguments longer than maybe 20 minutes now. It can just be personality types and where you are in life. But a valuable person in your life? You work through tha…

You can't always work through emotional dysregulation issues (inability to return to baseline after six hours of argument being one indicator of such issues) by just talking it out. Sometimes you can, sometimes it's associated with something more fundamental like a personality disorder where professional help needs to be involved.

I have a theory I use that helps me with this, the "million dollar gun to the head" theory.

Would either of them stop fighting instantly if there as a gun to their heads or offered a million dollars?

If the answer is "yes", then it's entirely within their control to solve the problem.

The only people I think that fail this are psychopaths, and I think those are rare.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#287

Post by Ishmaeli » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 6:01 PM UTC

erik_landerholm wrote: post #53

Been married for 20 years almost…we never fight. We both do things that aren’t optimal, but we give each other the benefit of the doubt, we talk about everything, we don’t step on each other’s areas of responsibility, we don’t speak harshly to each other and we are best friends. I can’t ever imagine being in a the situation described above. I mean all the individual things happen to us leaving dishes, muddy whatever…

Same. 23 years and I don't mention it often because it feels like bragging, and we certainly didn't do anything to "earn" our relationship. I think it was just dumb luck that we fell into it and happen to be so compatible along so many lines.

But it always baffles us whenever we spend time with another couple (including our own parents) and they are so short with each other. As you say, harsh.

We come away from those gatherings wondering, is this really how people live? Seems to be.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#288

Post by RobertRoberts » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 6:02 PM UTC

exolymph wrote: post #282

RobertRoberts wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked from home for many years (before it was popular) and I had a family too. This kind of things happened to me and my wife a lot, hours of arguing while I should have been working. You can work through it, you just have to care enough. We no longer have arguments longer than maybe 20 minutes now. It can just be personality types and where you are in life. But a valuable person in your life? You work through tha…

Or maybe you and your wife don't funge with every other pair of individuals in the whole world? Some people truly aren't compatible and make each other miserable.

I think more people give up and quit on compatible people than we care to admit. Getting along is hard for everyone under stressful situations. (combined with our own personal flaws)

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#289

Post by jacobolus » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 6:02 PM UTC

a_puppy wrote: post #275

rhacker wrote: post #251

This is how I read this. The wife may have long ago brought up some argument that was "banned". In other words - bread winner conversations. Bread winners often have this trait: I make all the money, and I can only do that by working my butt off. So you need to take care of all the other things. No questions. This is why the dishes is such a huge deal now: Since the ACTUAL conversation is banned (by the man) the only…

This is an interesting point of view. I don't know enough about their relationship to know whether that's what was going on. But, I do want to point out something else in your comment: > She now has to wash and put away the glass. No she doesn't. She can just leave it there. She can leave her own glasses there, too. The pressure to keep the counter clean isn't coming from the husband. He doesn't give a damn how many…

> It's coming from an expectation of femininity that she's internalized.

This is a sexist assumption which denies the woman individual agency. One person in a relationship having a higher standard for cleanliness than the other isn’t necessarily the result of some society-wide conditioning. There are plenty of very tidy men and more relaxed women out there in the wide world. And plenty of relationships where both partners are very neat or very messy.

When people have different standards, they need to communicate and work together to solve problems in a mutually acceptable way. Both “I don’t care if we live in a pigsty so it’s all your fault for caring about it” and “everything needs to be perfectly spotless and you need to contribute equal time to maintaining the space to my exacting specification” are one-sided cop outs.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#290

Post by mkoubaa » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 6:03 PM UTC

rajin444 wrote: post #82

jayski wrote: post #24

Im 99% sure the wife in this story used the glass as an excuse to get out. If youre happy with the life youve built together and love your partner theres no way you leave it over something like this. I dont buy the "it shows disrespect" argument. Shes going to be with somebody else in a years time. But when youre in a bad situation and the other person isn't giving you a good reason to leave sometimes you have to get…

Definitely this. The writer (and many commenters here) are missing a very important distinction. Changing yourself is good and healthy but only when you want to. Changing for somebody else is toxic and will not work. Marriage is a partnership, not a series of trade offs (in practice it will look like this, but it cannot be seen as this). Both sides should be grateful for the changes they make for one another as well…

I don't agree with the last point, it's somewhat culturally charged. In many cultures a marriage that isn't intended to be permanent is normal.