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Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

businessinsider.co.za

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Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#201

Post by muterad_murilax »

derefr wrote: post #47
moistly wrote: post #28

The biggest mistake western democracies have made is to trade with dictatorships. Enriching them has not encouraged them to become progressive, it has only made them more powerful. We have sown the seeds of our own destruction through our complicity.

Historians would point toward a pressure toward democratization of states that occurs as the middle class gains more power. Countries like France and Britain didn't suddenly decide on "parliamentary democracy" as a model out of nowhere; they developed a parliament first, when they were still monarchies, and then the parliament suppressed the monarch. The second estate (nobility) of these countries, which previously f…

> Historians would point toward a pressure toward democratization of states that occurs as the middle class gains more power.

Like what happened in Nazi Germany? /s

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#202

Post by andy_ppp »

paulcole wrote: post #127
andy_ppp wrote: post #99

Isn’t this inline with their values, collective above individual rights? Is it genuinely bad or is using the organs of someone you were about to execute and give someone else life a good thing?

It is genuinely bad. In the US we don’t even need the free-organ incentive to sentence innocent people to death.

They would probably say, on average, that it works out for the best overall for society? I disagree with them but they have a very different way of looking at things from me. I prefer to think about where others are coming from rather than just condemn them.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#203

Post by dennis_jeeves1 »

ourmandave wrote: post #88
elil17 wrote: post #61

I think execution is absolutely wrong and never morally justifiable. However I don’t see why execution + organ harvesting is worse than execution alone.

It violates individual autonomy. It creates a motivation to find the innocent guilty. Never underestimate how absolutely low someone will go to make a buck.

As they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#204

Post by vkou »

gedy wrote: post #191
vkou wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you're suggesting that we should eat higher costs for everything, lower wages, harder and more dangerous work, and maybe throw in Beijing air quality as a bonus. Which of all of these new, unregulated extraction and manufacturing jobs will you be signing up to do? Will you be doing your fifty hours in the unregulated zinc mine, or your sixty-five in the Nike jeans sweatshop? Productivity isn't like money, you can…

I’m old enough to remember life before PRC manufacturing, and it was just fine. I’m not that old either. Besides, cost of living isn’t that cheap in the west anyways.

> I’m old enough to remember life before PRC manufacturing, and it was just fine.

Yes, it was just done in shining beacons of freedom like Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, with the resources to fuel it coming in large part from despotic regimes in Africa, or juntas in South America, or petro-sheikdoms.

> Besides, cost of living isn’t that cheap in the west anyways.

It can always go up further.

In the meantime, before we take drastic, widely unpopular measures, perhaps we could take baby steps, like not actively working towards creating more dictatorships..? We can do a lot on this front, by doing very little.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#205

Post by skinnymuch »

1024core wrote: post #110
belter wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you travel to another country, and come back with new kidneys specially when you are already of old age and so not so high on a donation waiting list?

> not so high on a donation waiting list? The CCP will move you to the top of this list if you're powerful and well-connected, as she was.

I mean you can replace CCP with any large groups of people or say any country and that’s going to be true.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#206

Post by random314 »

moistly wrote: post #28

The biggest mistake western democracies have made is to trade with dictatorships. Enriching them has not encouraged them to become progressive, it has only made them more powerful. We have sown the seeds of our own destruction through our complicity.

There was never any goal to make them progressive. The goal was always enrichment of the elites as CIAs numerous expeditions in south America and iran have proven. The only goal is alignment with NATO.

The goal of "promotion of democracy" is a simple propaganda lie that doesn't stand up to even the most cursory examination.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#207

Post by afry1 »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #53
afry1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am astounded by the lack of empathy in what you've written.

What is he supposed to write instead? This is not news. There's new studies confirming it, but we've known for decades China is ruled by a totalitarian regime that treats human life as disposable, and we've heard rumors of this for decades, and of much, much worse. No one with power has done anything about it. No one with power wants to do anything about it. Instead we have world leaders praise China for its boldness…

Eesh.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#208

Post by wl »

belter wrote: post #130
omginternets wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No anesthesia by the Japanese, or by the current-day Chinese?

Unit 731 did not use any while doing vivisection. For China, looking at the practices being discussed here to ensure "high quality" organs, would the practitioners suddenly grow a conscience?

Anesthesia on brain-dead donors is the standard of care, not because the donor is suffering at that point, but because the stresses of the harvest can harm the organs. I doubt very much that the those involved in murder by organ theft would lower the quality of the organs just to make their victims suffer more.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#209

Post by paulcole »

andy_ppp wrote: post #202
paulcole wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is genuinely bad. In the US we don’t even need the free-organ incentive to sentence innocent people to death.

They would probably say, on average, that it works out for the best overall for society? I disagree with them but they have a very different way of looking at things from me. I prefer to think about where others are coming from rather than just condemn them.

Any government putting any people to death is genuinely bad in my opinion.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#210

Post by alephnan »

iratewizard wrote: post #190
pharke wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone always goes straight to outsourced manual labor as a solution. It's a bad solution. If we weren't a nation run by corrupt middle managers trying to inflate their own salaries and sense of purpose we'd have stuck with the tried and true method of innovating on the manufacturing process itself making it more automated and less dependent on human labor. Human labor is always slow, prone to mistakes, and expensi…

China also doesn't share our value of craftsmanship. By letting them own a portion of our supply chain, they own a lot more than just the manual labor. They put us in situations where measuring temperature means buying an antique mercury thermometer, buying a $400 nist certified alcohol one, or getting Chinese made garbage that is not accurate within 2°.

> China also doesn't share our value of craftsmanship

Obviously we share theirs since we’ve shown were interested in cutting costs at the expense of quality.

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