The biggest mistake western democracies have made is to trade with dictatorships. Enriching them has not encouraged them to become progressive, it has only made them more powerful. We have sown the seeds of our own destruction through our complicity.
Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says
161–170 of 230 posts
Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
Literally the first result on google from a reputable source says she went to China to get a transplant: https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-rose-pak-20160919-... And China has an extremely well documented practice of doing exactly what OP said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go...
I'm not disputing anything said, but just a heads up since I also heard about the Fulan Gong organ harvesting thing years before I heard any thing else about what Fulan Gong even is: read up on it. It has its own weird nest of conspiracy around it. Not authoritative, but I thought this was interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JaPzJKycxc
https://web.archive.org/web/20200526081806/https://www.lamag...
Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
Notably, this model was repeated in East-Asian countries like South Korea and Taiwan. They managed to transition away from authoritarian rule and democratize without any excess of social tensions. More recently, Central-Eastern Europe has also been broadly successful following the fall of Soviet rule. People love to talk about democracy as if it's somehow in decline as of late, but this couldn't be more wrong.
I'm not sure I would qualify any post-Soviet Eastern European country (Hungary, Poland, Bulgaria, ...) as a boradly successful. Typically, they are highly corrupted, wealth amass in a tiny sliver of the population, they are hemorrageing their youth and their brains, their political spectrums can be resumed as ‶corrupted right-wing guy sucking on the EU tits″ and ‶corrupted even more far-right guy sucking on Russia/Ch…
> wealth amass in a tiny sliver of the population
Yeah, right. /s https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.GINI?locations=P...
> their political spectrums can be resumed as ‶corrupted right-wing guy sucking on the EU tits″
No, it can't, it's more complicated than that. I think your language alone says a lot about how much thought has gone into your statements.
In short, Poland has seen a shift in its policy towards the EU after around 2015. A lot of it can be attributed to pre-Brexit Conservative Party-style anti-EU populism (and, if that's the case, why make it appear like a post-Soviet phenomenon alone?), but a part of it is genuinely related to the general debate about the future of the EU and its policies. The last words quoted, aside from their vulgarity, are just totally inaccurate. One thing to consider is the cohesion funds (which, by the way, the European Commission has blocked, and rightly so, from Hungary) and the pandemic recovery fund (which it has barred Poland from, also rightly so), but you can't reduce the discussion to those, especially in the recent weeks when Poland has shouldered the lion share of the European cost of welcoming Ukrainian refugees fleeing the war.
And, of course, the Polish political parties include a very significant pro-EU liberal opposition stronghold, usually just slightly trailing the populist ruling party in the election polls. So, no, your description of the spectrum is far from the truth.
I mean, even the three countries mentioned are vastly different from one another in where they stand. Today's Hungary, admittedly, has gone the farthest in terms of limiting the freedom of media and dismantling the judicial system. Poland's ruling party has not gone that far, and I would say it's very unlikely it will, for historical reasons – the anarcho-democratic political traditions are just too strong, as is the civil society.
So, in short, I'm all for being alarming when that's warranted, and there are things to be alarmed with, to various extent, when looking at last years' developments in Poland (can't speak for other countries). But one needs to stay truthful at the same time.
Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
Literally the first result on google from a reputable source says she went to China to get a transplant: https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-rose-pak-20160919-... And China has an extremely well documented practice of doing exactly what OP said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go...
I'm not disputing anything said, but just a heads up since I also heard about the Fulan Gong organ harvesting thing years before I heard any thing else about what Fulan Gong even is: read up on it. It has its own weird nest of conspiracy around it. Not authoritative, but I thought this was interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JaPzJKycxc
Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says
#165The China Tribunal came out with a report of how the government of China harvests organs from political prisoners. It is a very widespread practice. https://chinatribunal.com/ The document: https://chinatribunal.com/final-judgment/#
At the end, when digging a little bit few years ago, it turned out that this "China Tribunal" was itself not a "real group", but a spin off of ETAC[2], which is a small group that is against "End Transplant Abuse in China", itself stacked with Falun Gong practitioners, so ETAC reached out to doctors, lawyers, whom would go and oppose organ harvesting in China and added them as members of the "Tribunal"[A1], then financed/rented the halls which the "China Tribunal" would use to do their decree to oppose the Chinese organ harvesting of Chinese death row inmates, but, most of their pieces are not per-se dedicated to oppose the Chinese organ harvest methods in general, but focused on shedding light of Falun Gong's victims [3]
Then to get the word out of their Tribunal, they invited Reuters Foundation, not Reuters, the NGO politically active foundation of the same name, and then Reuters proper, published a Reuters Foundation article on their website [4]
Now days, we have new Uyghur groups, which will be doing similar schemes such as declaring these tribunals, these Uyghur groups themselves, being funded by the National Endowment For Democracy [5][6]
[1] https://chinatribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ChinaTr...
[2] https://chinatribunal.com/about-etac/
[3] https://endtransplantabuse.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Bl...
[4] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-china-rights-idUS...
[5] https://endtransplantabuse.org/?s=Tribunal
[6] https://www.ned.org/wp-content/themes/ned/search/grant-searc...
[A1] Note that several of the people involved with this China Tribunal, were themselves involved on the older "Iran Tribunal" dedicated to highlight the crimes of the People's Republic of Iran, that tribunal itself also had several of their members financially benefiting from US National Endowment for Democracy grants and payments, and these same people are highly regarded members of this new "China Tribunal" [7]
Mind you, that this post is not to deny the situation of China harvesting the organs of death row inmates, but rather to shed light on just how murky the funding of all these groups is, and how incestuous they are on the people orchestrating them, note that EndTransplantAbuseInChina (ETAC) doesnt have a "who funds us" page
Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says
#166The biggest mistake western democracies have made is to trade with dictatorships. Enriching them has not encouraged them to become progressive, it has only made them more powerful. We have sown the seeds of our own destruction through our complicity.
I'd take "Put me under and harvest all my organs" before "firing squad or electrocution" any day, but that's just me. Unfortunately for Richard Bernard Moore he doesn't live in an evil dictatorship.
[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/south-carolina-execute-...
Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
> far richer In so far that there would not be supply chain issues causing massive inflation? How would Amazon, Apple, the world’s richest companies be so without China?
They could all be running operations in Mexico. That could have become the North American SZ.
Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says
#168Everyone in UK is an organ donor by default You might criticise that there is still a death penalty You might criticise the justice system is not good enough But taking the organs from prisoners that were sentenced to be executed that day doesn't sound that unreasonable, if that guarantees better organs to save someone else
Are you able to opt out?
Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
Without the exploitation of cheap labor and China work practices, your iPhone would cost 10,000 dollars. Apple would be more like a Cartier or Tiffany...A few small exclusive shops around Monaco and the Cote de Azur.
Without the exploitation of cheap labor and China work practices, we would have been motivated to automate the manufacturing process and your iPhone would cost 100 dollars.
But yeah, Apple would have automated things. Except the part where they pass the savings on to end customers.
Furthermore in Apple’s case, they want China to be rich, too, because that’s a big market.
Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is nearly impossible to get an honest current thought from a Chinese citizen about that, many are comfortable, many are afraid that they will be reported for expressing any opinion. There is a worldwide network of snitches of mostly other Chinese citizens that will harm their interests and family in China. Just because you aren't part of it by not being Chinese (citizen) doesn't mean that a non-party line message…
You don’t really have to get their individual thoughts. At the end of the day look at their satisfaction levels. Look at the number of Chinese exchange students returning home vs staying abroad. And look at the economy. If it is doing well, chances are most people will be Ok with their government. Polling people for their thoughts is usually unreliable anyways because people can say anything: it costs nothing. It’s t…
That tells you basically nothing.
Some wealthy Chinese have a designated family member move to hedge their wealth preservation bets while galavanting around in a western country. I don't think trends in that metric reveal anything except how many are willing to play that game.