Live data from Hacker News

Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

businessinsider.co.za

71–80 of 230 posts

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#71
post #47
post #28

The biggest mistake western democracies have made is to trade with dictatorships. Enriching them has not encouraged them to become progressive, it has only made them more powerful. We have sown the seeds of our own destruction through our complicity.

Historians would point toward a pressure toward democratization of states that occurs as the middle class gains more power. Countries like France and Britain didn't suddenly decide on "parliamentary democracy" as a model out of nowhere; they developed a parliament first, when they were still monarchies, and then the parliament suppressed the monarch. The second estate (nobility) of these countries, which previously f…

> Historians would point toward a pressure toward democratization of states that occurs as the middle class gains more power.

Historians didn't have anything to do with all the decisions that were made by politicians making deals with China. It was the financial industry and the politicians they finance who came up with bullshit PR to convince the public opinion that China would magically become a democracy if the west started free trade with China. No historian was ever consulted unless it was to give credit to that PR campaign.

Now did a significant part of the chinese population become wealthier as the result? Yes, it doesn't change the fact that China was, is and will be a bloody dictatorship, for a long time, by western standards.

The west needed to outsource slavery for economic purposes, as always, the west got them slaves.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#72
post #61

I think execution is absolutely wrong and never morally justifiable. However I don’t see why execution + organ harvesting is worse than execution alone.

It certainly could provide some perverse motivations.

Any effort to stop executions now includes the fact that potential donors recipients will die.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#73
post #61

I think execution is absolutely wrong and never morally justifiable. However I don’t see why execution + organ harvesting is worse than execution alone.

because it can be an incentive to kill people for money, due to corruption.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#74

So China infringes on human rights, in other news "water is wet". Not really newsworthy. I would be shocked if it was Iceland or Norway doing that. As much as we hate hearing about it, only the Chinese people have the power to make changes to this regime. Having met many Chinese students abroad, I'd say they are OK with this happening. Either they are apathic, or supportive of their totalitarian regime.

> only the Chinese people have the power to make changes to this regime Not the Americans exploiting cheaper labor in China and making China rich ? > I would be shocked if it was Iceland or Norway doing that. I would be shocked if you weren’t wearing made in China / Vietnam shoes or clothing.

At the same time I'm not wearing any clothes made in North Korea or Venezuela, same as pretty much everyone. How exactly is it making a difference on the lives of those people living under those regimes? The nice thing about the Ukrainian war is that it's going to show how overrated economic boycott is in practice.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the west be as rich and Democratic without?

Far richer, but with less plastic junk that has to be thrown away in a few months.

> far richer

In so far that there would not be supply chain issues causing massive inflation?

How would Amazon, Apple, the world’s richest companies be so without China?

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#77

So China infringes on human rights, in other news "water is wet". Not really newsworthy. I would be shocked if it was Iceland or Norway doing that. As much as we hate hearing about it, only the Chinese people have the power to make changes to this regime. Having met many Chinese students abroad, I'd say they are OK with this happening. Either they are apathic, or supportive of their totalitarian regime.

It’s important to note that Chinese students abroad are generally quite wealthy. On average, the system is benefiting them and hiding all the bad stuff from them. It’s hard to know if there is a lot of unrest within China because most of the people who would have a big problem with the regime can’t travel abroad.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#78
post #47
post #28

The biggest mistake western democracies have made is to trade with dictatorships. Enriching them has not encouraged them to become progressive, it has only made them more powerful. We have sown the seeds of our own destruction through our complicity.

Historians would point toward a pressure toward democratization of states that occurs as the middle class gains more power. Countries like France and Britain didn't suddenly decide on "parliamentary democracy" as a model out of nowhere; they developed a parliament first, when they were still monarchies, and then the parliament suppressed the monarch. The second estate (nobility) of these countries, which previously f…

While true for England, things went a little differently in France with the French Revolution. I'm not sure if it started as you say, but it ended not much differently than a violent overthrow of the ruling class in other countries.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#80
post #47
post #28

The biggest mistake western democracies have made is to trade with dictatorships. Enriching them has not encouraged them to become progressive, it has only made them more powerful. We have sown the seeds of our own destruction through our complicity.

Historians would point toward a pressure toward democratization of states that occurs as the middle class gains more power. Countries like France and Britain didn't suddenly decide on "parliamentary democracy" as a model out of nowhere; they developed a parliament first, when they were still monarchies, and then the parliament suppressed the monarch. The second estate (nobility) of these countries, which previously f…

>Historians would point toward a pressure toward democratization of states that occurs as the middle class gains more power.

Historians would be making the classic correlation|causation fallacy. Your French example is apt because China has created a bourgeoisie class which is also the effective monarchy. Historians might say that China has learned from history and ensured that their powerful class cannot be usurped.

I think it much more convincing that social values determine the direction in which a country allows government to rule them. Chinese values are miles apart from French values, and their citizens are just much more comfortable with submitting to authoritarian rule. I base this on living in the country, as well as cultural research such as this: https://www.hofstede-insights.com/country-comparison/china/

Post reply on HN