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An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

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Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#221

Post by rtpg »

ithkuil wrote: post #141
0xcoffee wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even worse, they do lockdown in place and without warning. So if you were at work, and your dog was home, then your dog would stave alone. I really don't understand why they don't at least let people stuck at work go home, really crazy situation. Source: Chinese gf's dad is in lockdown at his work, while mom in lockdown at home.

Is gf's dad work in another city or does the lockdown in place prevent movement from any buildings to get back home even if close apart?

it might be case by case but annecdotaly there's been a lot of 'lock everyone up in an office building when a case shows up' stuff

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#222

Post by smcl »

mike_h wrote: post #161

I’m in Shanghai too. It’s a city of 25+ million people: there will be some bad stories. But overall it is running remarkably and the vast majority of people aren’t thinking about how oppressed they are by having to eat fish. They’re helping each other and encouraging each other, because they know the cost of not doing this is millions of lives.

> people aren’t thinking about how oppressed they are by having to eat fish

Not sure what you're meaning here. The guy seems pretty pleased with the fish he bought, it just sounds like it was pretty tough work to get them.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#223

Post by HWR_14 »

ipaddr wrote: post #188
mike_h wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is on Earth, not in some other solar system. If their excess deaths per capita were a fraction of the numbers in the West, there would be no way to hide it.

The easiest way to hide it is to report death was caused for another reason. If someone like yourself is going to take their numbers at face value they have already hidden it.

Whether out of malice or just the difficulty of testing corpses with inadequate supplies s, I thought it was widely assumed all countries were underreporting in at least 2020 and probably further. Therefore, everyone serious looked at excess deaths.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#224

Post by factcheckdec »

jdrc wrote: post #26

Little weird to be talking about peopel starving and lacking meds, but then again they re able to find fresh fish. Anyway, i wonder what this pattern of isolatation can create in terms of covid variants which may develop in china or australia but which haven't been introduced to the rest of world this season.

My wife's parents last week were able to accept delivery of only 3 garlic bulbs, a small cabbage and one or two other root vegetables. Every night they have to spend hours desparetly trying to put items in their basket, hoping that what they place in it remains in stock for longer than a few seconds. If the order is successful there is little certaintly that you'll get what you ordered. Some people will receive fresh meat and fish, many others won't.

So no, it's not a little weird if you engage your brain and attempt to show a modicum of empathy or understanding of the situation.

My wife is a proud Shanghainese and her parents have until now lived an extremely comfortable life in government and in academia. She's now determined to relocate them having seen them confined to a building, barred from leaving for even essential supples (water and food), by a leadership that has shown itself to be too incompotent to ensure adequate measuress have been put in place to prevent malnourishment for many.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#225

Post by somewhereoutth »

smcl wrote: post #184
somewhereoutth wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, the author conjectures that people may starve, but provides no evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that people are starving.

That's setting a pretty high bar for the author, no? They're locked inside their apartment building and can't really go out and start knocking on doors and surveying the population at large - in fact I think that would get them into trouble pretty quickly. So we don't have anything but conjecture and common sense (and various reports, videos posted elsewhere in these comments) to go on. I think it's pretty reasonable…

Given the bartering that seems to be going on, it sounds like the author has good connections with their neighbours, certainly enough to be aware of anyone actually starving - and I don't doubt they'd highlight specific cases in the article if they knew of any.

A reasonable assumption is still an assumption, but it may be that there are additional support networks (formal or otherwise) to help those most at risk.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#226

Post by HWR_14 »

gitfan86 wrote: post #186
mike_h wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is the evidence that it didn’t work?

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/shanghai-official-says-h... Things don't get better from here.

So your point is that things cannot improve when they are bad because no one can voice a contrarian view, but your evidence that things are bad is Shanghai's vice-mayor advocating contrarian views?

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#227

Post by WillPostForFood »

Barrin92 wrote: post #145

Kind of crazy how sentimental and emotional the response is with barely any actual discussion going on about the merits of this on a grand scale. Yes, stories about people's dogs and temporary economic depression are awful. The larger picture is that China by pursuing these policies has stopped millions of deaths, probably tens of millions of cases of long term disabilities, and overall kept the economy going. It's w…

The larger picture is that China by pursuing these policies has stopped millions of deaths

Stopped or just delayed deaths? At some point they are going to have to stop the lockdowns, and Covid will still be there, ready to continue spreading.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#228

Post by roenxi »

SnowHill9902 wrote: post #211
roenxi wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shanghai has a population larger than most countries. There are a lot of extreme stories every day in Shanghai. That has to be considered when talking about "mass" anything, even when putting aside the high likelihood of a misleading video.

Quoted post unavailable.

No, I'm a libertarian. But depending on how you want to measure it, Shanghai can be said to have a population bigger than Canada. That changes the context of what a video of sad cases means - 10s of anything, in Shanghai, is not that shocking.

This isn't some rural country town like New York or London with ~15-20 million population. A lot of people live in Shanghai.

I'm sure the situation in the city is terrible, but some video doesn't tell us much about anything.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#229

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

Barrin92 wrote: post #145

Kind of crazy how sentimental and emotional the response is with barely any actual discussion going on about the merits of this on a grand scale. Yes, stories about people's dogs and temporary economic depression are awful. The larger picture is that China by pursuing these policies has stopped millions of deaths, probably tens of millions of cases of long term disabilities, and overall kept the economy going. It's w…

It is likely lockdowns achieve very little, only delaying the inevitable surge of cases and deaths for a later date.

Also, they lie about their numbers. Locked down population with restructed internet access and no independent media can lose 50% to an epidemy and we'll know nothing.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#230

Post by somewhereoutth »

"This makes this whole lockdown feel drenched in identity politics, because letting go of zero covid forces China to also let go of that narrative."

Not identity politics - perhaps national pride, but certainly not identity politics. Shame the author raises this 'dog whistle' in this otherwise credible article.

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