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Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

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Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#691
post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced. There are plenty of countries with social safety nets galore, and all of them seem to have fewer freedoms and fewer small businesses created per capita than the USA.

What freedoms are other countries lacking? Just guns?

In Germany it is illegal to school your children if you don’t like what the public institutions are doing.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't understand what the benefits of collective action against a hostile employer are. That's the fault of the union for failing to explain what they do for members (unions are about much more than just wages). That doesn't mean there's no benefit though.

a union is not an unalloyed good for the employees. I also worked at a unionized grocery for about 3 months. At our shop, it was clear that the union was set up to protect the senior employees at the expense of the junior employees. There were about 10-ish people on the checkout stands during my shifts, 4 of them were employees who had been working there for 10+ years, and 6 of them were people who had been working t…

That has nothing to do with unions though, obviously. If you look at any organisation you tend to see people who have been there a long time without moving upwards or onwards are pretty lazy people who know how to play the system. They don't need a union for that.

A lot of people who are anti-unions appear to think the union is the cause of everything bad without noticing the same things happen everywhere else as well. Keeping shitty staff around is much more a function of employers who don't track how good their staff are than anything to do with unionization.

Also, forming an opinion about unions based on one job that lasted 3 months with 10 co-workers, the majority of who were hard-workers, is appalling. That isn't anywhere near enough information. You really need to try harder.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that the american dream? Owning a nice house with large living spaces for a complete family, amenities such as pools and outdoor areas, garage with at least two cars? There's a reason people living in small standardized modular pods in extremely dense skyscrapers is a staple of cyberpunk dystopias.

As the perfect complement to the parent comment, you're conveniently ignoring the qualifier "close to the city center". No part of the American dream has ever claimed the suburban paradise to be in the middle of Manhattan. It's a contradiction by definition. To go on a bit of a tangent, this is what bugs me so much about the housing conversation. People take fragments of thoughts and stitch them together into belief…

Close to the whole problem is that “city center” the development pattern ends at very short radius from the center in most metro areas (New York excepted), while “close to city center” the geographical fact continues on for several more miles that are currently developed as the suburban dream.

Most cities have a downtown core, and even some high-density housing in that downtown core, but so little of it that you can walk the whole thing in a few minutes.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a 46yro male from the US. When have corporations NOT been allowed to screwed over citizens? I think thats been true for the entirety of my life.

And here in Sweden I come from decades of strong unions, strong government oversight. So much so that people are looking to the other side, voting for privatization without understanding the consequences. Voting for parties that promote less government oversight and more control to corporations. Government regulation isn't there to stifle development, it's there to PROTECT. THE. CITIZENS.

The consequences are dire. In the US, We the People only now exist to line the pockets of the uppermost classes, whose disdain for the rest of us is, well its really getting tiring at this point.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#695
post #682
post #680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Obama was all in all conservative. I think he had some conservative views, gay marriage being one of them. > Not “more or less”, you either are or you aren’t. This is not true. This is both fallacy and a lie. This is also refusal to see worls as it is, insisting on comfortable dichotomy.

This is not true. This is both fallacy and a lie. Then you and I agree on the exact same point. The OP was wrong to say "We had to drag conservatives kicking and screaming..." There are no "conservatives", there are "conservative views".

There are people who identify themselves as conservatives. They are subculture that very much exists. It is not true that there is no such thing as conservative.

These people call themselves conservative. They read what other self described conservatives write or listen to their talkshows. They alter their own views to conform to what those talkshows say.

These people hated Obama. Obama did not shared all that many views with them.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Higher wages cannot make it any more possible for N+1 people to have N large plots of land close to the city center.

People living near city centers are perfectly content with apartment buildings, which have no real upper limit on how many people will fit into a given plot of land.

It sure would be nice if they voted and engaged with local government processes as if that were true!

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#697
post #661

I am very naïve on this, but unions seems to always been portrayed as negative to business and I really don't understand this view. Of course, if you are paying more money from getting the same amount of value from an employer, that is bad for business. But this is not necessarily what can happen, giving more benefits, more stable schedule, better wages, more WLB means being more competitive in the labour market, it…

The issue employers have with unions is much less about wage bargaining an almost entirely about the duplicative work/labor unions tend to lead to. As a hypothetical, lets say you run a widget factory. Line workers at your widget factory spend 6 hour of their shift making widgets, and 2 hours of their shift packing widgets up after they have completed making their widgets. A union comes in and will say "we can have e…

Lol, what a load of bs that comment is. Straight anti-union propaganda.

Why would the workers insist on this? Most workers want their company to succeed, just not succeed because of exploiting people.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#698
post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Democratically run unions give employees real negotiating power over what it means to go to work day to day. I've been part of a few and this has never been the case in my experience.

My wife was in a union and was able to decline membership. She was straight up bullied/harassed by her union-belonging peers when she left (saving some serious cash — relatively speaking — by not having to pay dues anymore). Nothing about her job changed when she left the union. I have no issues with unions, provided the employees have the choice to belong. But there’s the rub many (most?) states require membership (…

If everyone could reape the benefits but don't pay there would be no unions.

Did your wife also try to skip paying taxes? Do you have "no problems with taxes as long as they're not mandatory"?

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This effort started over unsafe COVID working conditions. Not dying at work seems like a win. 15$/hr ~ 30k$/year - That doesn't sound like a lot to be honest.

Not a lot sure. But WAY above minimum wage in many many states. These aren’t highly skilled jobs. They come with healthcare and leave benefits. That’s game changing. Yet people seem enraged… I just don’t get it.

Perhaps it's your privilege blinding you? Just a thought.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#700
post #568

Not a big fan of most modern day unions, but I hope they unionize the shit out of Amazon. I am happy to pay more. Their treatment of the rank and file is despicable. Here in Seattle I have met very few people who enjoyed their time working at Amazon, and that includes tech folk.

At what point should we be ok with low-level Amazon jobs sucking? I worked at a fast food restaurant. That sucked. But I was also a high school kid with no marketable skills. So I sort of understood I was “putting in my time” and this is the way it goes. I never thought “we should unionize and demand more money.” If Amazon needs career people in these positions, they’ll be forced to treat the employees as career peop…

"I had it bad therefore other should too"..?

Why does working in a restaurant have to suck? I've worked at plenty here in Norway during my youth, was always nice. They pay according to a collective agreement, with extra pay for evening and night work. So a pay it was possible to survive on.

Why demand that "unskilled" labor should suck? Why want to inflict that pain on others?

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