Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#641

Post by kuang_eleven » Sat, Apr 02, 2022, 8:03 AM UTC

marricks wrote: post #485

pmorici wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High housing prices aren't the result of stagnant wages and rising wages will only cause housing to become more expensive (more money chasing the same housing stock) unless something is done to boost supply. Unions don't fix this, they might make it worse on the margins. Unionization is a mixed bag. The UAW has been in the news recently for a seemingly never ending parade of union leaders being sent to jail for corru…

How many empty houses are there in the US, millions? How many luxury condos are being built and sit unoccupied? It seems like people always come out of the woodwork to explain how rising wages aren’t helpful and are solution must always seem to involve paying for more things (this cases houses).

> How many empty houses are there in the US, millions?

About 16M units unoccupied [1].

> How many luxury condos are being built

Quite a few! New construction is almost always targeted at the high-end, which has been true throughout history. Low-end housing, outside specific government projects, tend to be the high-end housing of the past

> and sit unoccupied?

Very, very few. The idea of luxury housing being built only to sit empty for some unspecified "investment" reason has been a persistent myth that has never been backed up by data.

1. https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?q=DP04#

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#642

Post by lultimouomo » Sat, Apr 02, 2022, 8:06 AM UTC

wiredone wrote: post #603

adultSwim wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This effort started over unsafe COVID working conditions. Not dying at work seems like a win. 15$/hr ~ 30k$/year - That doesn't sound like a lot to be honest.

Not a lot sure. But WAY above minimum wage in many many states. These aren’t highly skilled jobs. They come with healthcare and leave benefits. That’s game changing. Yet people seem enraged… I just don’t get it.

Are you suggesting that

* Those workers should not earn more, a union would make them earn more, therefore they should not unionize

Or that

* The union would not make those workers earn more, therefore they should not unionize

?

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#643

Post by nebula8804 » Sat, Apr 02, 2022, 8:16 AM UTC

jotm wrote: post #553

umvi wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced. There are plenty of countries with social safety nets galore, and all of them seem to have fewer freedoms and fewer small businesses created per capita than the USA.

That's because good safety nets means people don't have to take risks on business. So that leaves only the people who want to start a business. Who tend to leave for countries where it's easier to run a business and where they don't have to pay for the safety nets, but that's besides the point. As for freedoms, I don't know. Not that much of a difference between US, UK and Germany from what I can tell.

The US is the last man standing in the west that still employs these legacy policies. Where are they going to go? China?

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#644

Post by rufus_foreman » Sat, Apr 02, 2022, 8:18 AM UTC

Epa095 wrote: post #628

rufus_foreman wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I'm of the opinion that there needs to be a balance between worker and employer rights But that's not what we're talking about here. If I am making $8 an hour at my current job and Amazon is willing to pay me $15 an hour but the union says no, first of all we insist on $20 an hour and second of all we decide who gets those jobs and your name isn't on the list, that isn't worker rights, is it? It's not worker right…

And you go straight to fulfill OPs prophecy: "It seems like anti-union proponents will remind you of the bad times when unions had too much power," BTW, the way you characterise unions are interesting. Very different from how they work here in Northern Europe. I wonder if American unions really are as corrupt and screwed up as the Internet makes them sound.

It's not a matter of a union having too much power, it's a matter of why would a union have any power over me whatsoever?

I didn't elect a union. If I want to work for a company and they want to hire me, how does a union have the power to tell me I can't work for them and the company can't hire me?

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#645

Post by refurb » Sat, Apr 02, 2022, 8:19 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #623

refurb wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you including Obama in that? He was against gay marriage until the tide turned. What about the CA Prop 8 against gay marriage that was widely supported by minorities? Were you "dragging, kicking and screaming" those minorities as well?

I mean... yes? Clearly you're trying to go for a "gotcha!" type comment, but... so what? People who believed same-sex marriage should be illegal are just as wrong as people who believed interracial marriage should be illegal during much of the last century. It doesn't matter if they called themselves Democrats or Republicans or whatever. It doesn't matter if they were part of some majority or minority. They were just…

So when Obama became pro-gay marriage is he no longer a conservative? Or is he still one?

My comment was more about calling out a group that doesn’t actually exist or at least has no formal definition based on OPs opinion.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#646

Post by thathndude » Sat, Apr 02, 2022, 8:19 AM UTC

0des wrote: post #526

britch wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay and Benefits are one thing. Working conditions are another. You can pay me 15 an hour (Only $30K a year) but if I have to pee in a bottle or don't have enough schedule consistency to see my kids it's not worth it. Amazon may pay well for now, but let's be honest, Amazon is a monopolistic project. What happens when there's less competition than there is right now? Do you think wages stay where they're at without s…

> Democratically run unions give employees real negotiating power over what it means to go to work day to day. I've been part of a few and this has never been the case in my experience.

My wife was in a union and was able to decline membership. She was straight up bullied/harassed by her union-belonging peers when she left (saving some serious cash — relatively speaking — by not having to pay dues anymore).

Nothing about her job changed when she left the union.

I have no issues with unions, provided the employees have the choice to belong. But there’s the rub many (most?) states require membership (and dues) if there’s a union. And that’s never sat right with me.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#647

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Sat, Apr 02, 2022, 8:19 AM UTC

cs702 wrote: post #103

A single successful effort of unionization at an Amazon facility is more than symbolic: It will encourage -- and serve as a blueprint for -- employees at other Amazon facilities to do the same. Moreover, it will motivate employees at other large companies to try. This has been brewing for a while. It's possible we'll see a generational wave of unionization.

Robert Reich has a good interview with the recent Starbucks labor organizers.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#648

Post by INTPenis » Sat, Apr 02, 2022, 8:20 AM UTC

hn_version_0023 wrote: post #335

INTPenis wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? Why can't it be in Long Island, New Jersey, Newark, or any other place around NYC? It's a sad state of affairs when corporations are allowed to screw citizens over.

I’m a 46yro male from the US. When have corporations NOT been allowed to screwed over citizens? I think thats been true for the entirety of my life.

And here in Sweden I come from decades of strong unions, strong government oversight. So much so that people are looking to the other side, voting for privatization without understanding the consequences. Voting for parties that promote less government oversight and more control to corporations.

Government regulation isn't there to stifle development, it's there to PROTECT. THE. CITIZENS.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#649

Post by padraic7a » Sat, Apr 02, 2022, 8:21 AM UTC

umvi wrote: post #499

jdmichal wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my early 20's, I would have agreed 100% with your stance. But, you know what really gives people freedom and liberty? The freedom to fail without worrying about how they're going to keep a roof over their head and a meal on the table. Without worrying that they're one medical emergency away from losing everything they've worked for. You want people creating small, lifestyle businesses? Give them a safety net and l…

I'm not convinced. There are plenty of countries with social safety nets galore, and all of them seem to have fewer freedoms and fewer small businesses created per capita than the USA.

What freedoms are other countries lacking?

Just guns?

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#650

Post by thathndude » Sat, Apr 02, 2022, 8:23 AM UTC

alexk307 wrote: post #305

> Employees cast 2,654 votes to be represented by Amazon Labor Union and 2,131 against, giving the union a win by more than 10 percentage points, according to the National Labor Relations Board. More than 8,300 workers at the building This is just sad. Just a hair over 50% of the eligible voters voted; weirdly, approximately the same voter turnout for US elections historically. Does half of any given population just…

So, approximately, 25% of the workforce feel strongly about wanting a union so as to vote for it. Admittedly, only 20% feel strongly against it so to try and stop it. Makes it tough for either side to claim a proper mandate.