Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#541

Post by hither_shores » Sat, Apr 02, 2022, 3:27 AM UTC

stale2002 wrote: post #469

heavyset_go wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The right wants liberty, recognizing that comes with risk. The right are proponents of right-to-work legislation that force unions to represent non-dues paying members for free, and nullifies their private contracts. That's not exactly liberty, and it minimizes risk for owners.

That's not true at all. Those union members are perfectly free to create was is called a members only union, which only represents its own members who voluntarily join the organization. Doing that avoids any of those conditions that you are talking about.

The NLRA has historically been interpreted in a way that denies bargaining rights to members-only unions. It hasn't been tested in a while, and it's possible that the current NLRB would view the issue differently, but unless and until that happens minority unionism is not a viable strategy in the US.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#542

Post by adultSwim » Sat, Apr 02, 2022, 3:27 AM UTC

wiredone wrote: post #447

I really don’t understand this push tbh. Amazon is already the industry leader in pay and benefits for these roles. Why was this needed? In 2022, the only time I tend to see a union do anything, it’s to disrupt and create mob like holds on things (shipping, trucking etc). There seems to be waaay more corruption in anything union related than without. Can someone seriously explain why this is needed or a good thing? W…

This effort started over unsafe COVID working conditions. Not dying at work seems like a win.

15$/hr ~ 30k$/year - That doesn't sound like a lot to be honest.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#543

Post by djrobstep » Sat, Apr 02, 2022, 3:29 AM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #442

djrobstep wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it authoritarian and bad to be forced to interact with the union, but fine to be forced to interact with management?

Can always get a new job. But if every company has a monopoly union, can’t avoid that. Really don’t understand the reasoning to not making union membership voluntary. Completely illogical. Basically you agree it’s authoritarian but “it’s better than the alternative” which is bullshit.

Can always get a new job. But if every company has shareholders, can’t avoid that. Really don’t understand the reasoning to not making contributing to shareholder profit voluntary. Completely illogical. Basically you agree it’s authoritarian but “it’s better than the alternative” which is bullshit.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#544

Post by djrobstep » Sat, Apr 02, 2022, 3:32 AM UTC

josephcsible wrote: post #431

djrobstep wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should you also have the right to work at the company and not be forced to contribute to shareholder profits? Surely any management that was actually good for workers would have no reason to oppose such a measure.

I'm not asking to be in the union but not pay the dues. I'm asking to not be in the union.

I’m not asking to be considered a profit contributor but not contribute to profits. I’m asking to not be a profit contributor.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#545

Post by adultSwim » Sat, Apr 02, 2022, 3:32 AM UTC

SnowHill9902 wrote: post #409

Unions are disastrous in some countries. See Italy, Argentina, and Brazil. Boiling pot of corruption and extortion.

Companies are disastrous in many countries. It's a broad organizational structure that can be run many different ways.

I just know that at work I am alone and weak. With everyone else I would be on more equal footing with my employer. Instead of quitting, why not make my workplace better?

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#546

Post by dlp211 » Sat, Apr 02, 2022, 3:34 AM UTC

imwillofficial wrote: post #493

jorblumesea wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "if we're claiming to be the party of the working class, shouldn't we be in favor of this?" But they don't really mean it and have never meant it. The Republican party, at least in modern history, has never been pro working class in any real sense. The opposite in fact, probably far more hostile to working class than Democrats. Much of the "pro working class" rhetoric is largely just conservative values like aborti…

“ But they don't really mean it and have never meant it.” Ah reading millions of minds I see.

I don't care about what you believe, I care about what policy you enact, and Republican policy has been objectively anti-worker for my lifetime. So if you vote for Republicans, you are anti-worker.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#547

Post by ashtonkem » Sat, Apr 02, 2022, 3:34 AM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #324

cs702 wrote: post #103

A single successful effort of unionization at an Amazon facility is more than symbolic: It will encourage -- and serve as a blueprint for -- employees at other Amazon facilities to do the same. Moreover, it will motivate employees at other large companies to try. This has been brewing for a while. It's possible we'll see a generational wave of unionization.

> It's possible we'll see a generational wave of unionization. I fully expect this to happen. Younger folks today are the unlucky beneficiary of years of wage stagnation and home price inflation. They have every right to be angry, and I think they are collectively starting to realize that they have a lot of power to change the status quo. At the risk of veering into politics, I'm also not sure how this will change th…

> Younger folks today are the unlucky beneficiary of years of wage stagnation and home price inflation

Yes, and the pandemic brought a brief moment of dignity (but not safety) to the low paid service workers who make our society operate. They went from the butt of cruel jokes to “essential workers” and “heroes” overnight. It is very, very hard to force people back into undignified circumstances once they’re had even a taste of being treated like a person.

Veering into my own pet theories, I think that the social aspect of who is and is not allowed to be treated like an actual person is a highly underrated factor of unionization pushes. It often costs companies little to nothing financially to treat their employees like actual people, but it feels good to those on top of the office hierarchy to abuse and belittle those they see as their social inferiors. They ignore the risks of this behavior at their own peril.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#548

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Apr 02, 2022, 3:35 AM UTC

zeruch wrote: post #414

ATsch wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that question pretty much answers itself, especially if one looks at voting demographics by income. The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. (perhaps, on a more speculative note, also a reflection of the seemingly general conservative pattern of wanting to see oneself as "normal", to the point of sometimes fabricating "silent majoritie…

"The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality." Always? No. But certainly since the 1970s.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#549

Post by djrobstep » Sat, Apr 02, 2022, 3:39 AM UTC

educaysean wrote: post #331

djrobstep wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it bad to be forced to deal with the union and contribute to union dues, but fine to be forced to deal with management and contribute to shareholder profits?

Why is it bad? It's bad because it takes away freedom and agency from the working class, and workers rights is something I care about.

Why does being forced to deal with management and contribute to shareholder profits not take away freedom and agency from the working class?

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#550

Post by truffdog » Sat, Apr 02, 2022, 3:39 AM UTC

zeruch wrote: post #414

ATsch wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that question pretty much answers itself, especially if one looks at voting demographics by income. The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. (perhaps, on a more speculative note, also a reflection of the seemingly general conservative pattern of wanting to see oneself as "normal", to the point of sometimes fabricating "silent majoritie…

"The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality." Always? No. But certainly since the 1970s.

The Republican party was the party of big business before the end of the civil war.