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Google will soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content

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Re: Google will soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content

#151

Post by sreevisakh »

dessant wrote: post #123
numlock86 wrote: post #72

> Australian government forces Google to soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content There, I fixed it. I'm getting tired of every headline trying to bash on Google/Facebook/etc. for clicks.

Age verification is already mandated in the EU, and when you provide your credit card details to Google's age verification system for YouTube, they create a payments profile for you without consent. The Google account is set up for purchasing services across all Google properties, without needing to provide further payment details. Google is exploiting the requirement for age verification to set up Google accounts fo…

Google's use of payment profiles is much more nefarious and exploitative. I recently moved from one country to another. There are a lot of apps that provide local services - like banking and public transport information. I wasn't able to install any of them. Why? My original profile is from the country of my previous residence, where I originally bought my phone. None of those apps should be geographically restricted in the first place - but they are, for some unexplained reason. I have found apps that are geographically restricted even without the knowledge of the developer.

So then, how do you prove that you are in a different country? Easy, right? There are multiple sources of information that can prove your location - GPS, mobile service provider information, IP geo-location, Wifi SSID databases... . But no - none of that is enough. You have to add a local payment method! And coincidentally none of the payment methods other than credit card information works - not even the one provided by mobile service provider. So, you are forced to register your credit card information to prove your location.

Now that your have proved your location and installed the essential apps you need, may be it's time to delete the credit card information. What if you accidentally subscribe to some service you didn't want? After all, you aren't subscribed to any service or bought anything with the newly entered card. So it should be easy to delete it, right? NO! You are not allowed to delete your only registered payment method! [1] Now it's open forever as a payment method for online services or Google pay.

Google's tactics here are sleazy, underhanded and manipulative. And what of the complaints they receive about it? See for yourself - discussion locked and disabled! I don't know at what point their behavior is declared illegal and anti-social.

[1] https://support.google.com/googleplay/thread/10797082?hl=en&...

Re: Google will soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content

#152

Post by chickenpotpie »

gruez wrote: post #136
dudul wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can sometimes substitute with "to fight terrorists" if you need to vary your discourse a bit.

Or more recently, "to fight anti-vaxxers"

Can you give an example? Not sure what you mean.

Re: Google will soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content

#153

Post by giveupitscrazy »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #116
mechanical_bear wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, and not sure why the early downvote wave you experienced there. I am surprised to see this sort of sentiment downvoted on HN.

I'll explain why I downvoted - because I get a little bit sick of these slippery slope arguments that every time Google has to follow a law that, while controversial, is not exactly the last breath of a despotic régime, that people love to decry Google as "being evil". The fact is, there are gray areas. When it comes to government regulations, tech companies essentially have 2 options: comply or leave the country in…

Consider then if Google had decided to leave it would have had a huge negative backlash on the law, given the usefulness of Google.

Instead Australia can now get what it wants and the backlash is minimal at best. Meanwhile they can go on to celebrate their dystopian law as working because of the endorsement Google gave them by capitulating.

Short term yeah it'd suck for Australia to lose Google but then the law gets changed back, Google comes back, and everyone wins. Well except for the Australian government.

Re: Google will soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content

#154

Post by medo-bear »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #116
mechanical_bear wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, and not sure why the early downvote wave you experienced there. I am surprised to see this sort of sentiment downvoted on HN.

I'll explain why I downvoted - because I get a little bit sick of these slippery slope arguments that every time Google has to follow a law that, while controversial, is not exactly the last breath of a despotic régime, that people love to decry Google as "being evil". The fact is, there are gray areas. When it comes to government regulations, tech companies essentially have 2 options: comply or leave the country in…

> I totally disagree that this law warrants Google leaving Australia

I think most people have this opinion, but I wonder if they would have the same opinion if the country in question is a non-Anglo non-West but democratic country like India or Brazil

For the record, i think Google should leave

Re: Google will soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content

#155

Post by markdown »

dessant wrote: post #123
numlock86 wrote: post #72

> Australian government forces Google to soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content There, I fixed it. I'm getting tired of every headline trying to bash on Google/Facebook/etc. for clicks.

Age verification is already mandated in the EU, and when you provide your credit card details to Google's age verification system for YouTube, they create a payments profile for you without consent. The Google account is set up for purchasing services across all Google properties, without needing to provide further payment details. Google is exploiting the requirement for age verification to set up Google accounts fo…

> they create a payments profile for you without consent.

And? I create a "profile" in my mind of every new human I interact with, and every human I read about or hear about even without interacting with. It's a basic human function.

When I gain a new business client, I create a profile of them too. This might start with a phone number, but over time, expand to include an email address, knowledge about their location, work hours, bank of choice, etc. Most businesses do this and always have.

Consent isn't required for this.

Re: Google will soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content

#156

Post by gruez »

chickenpotpie wrote: post #152
gruez wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or more recently, "to fight anti-vaxxers"

Can you give an example? Not sure what you mean.

1. vaccine passports (the QR code kind, because it invites the possibility of mass data collection)

2. freezing "freedom convoy" participants' bank accounts without a court order

Re: Google will soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content

#157

Post by notRobot »

adventured wrote: post #147
idiotsecant wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does a credit card in fact verify age? Anyone at all can go buy a prepaid card at the grocery store, right?

> Does a credit card in fact verify age? Anyone at all can go buy a prepaid card at the grocery store, right? A prepaid card isn't a credit card. Payment processors can tell the difference between card types. You have to be 18 or older to get a credit card issued in your name (although you can add an underage authorized user to your card). And there are now other requirements needed if you're under 21 in the US, such…

> To get a debit card you must be either 18 or have a legal guardian who is at least 18 on the account.

I don't about the US or Australia, but this is definitely not true everywhere.

I know for a fact that in some countries children as young as 13 can have bank accounts and debit cards that are not linked to a guardian.

Re: Google will soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content

#158

Post by tzs »

DaltonCoffee wrote: post #102
numlock86 wrote: post #72

> Australian government forces Google to soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content There, I fixed it. I'm getting tired of every headline trying to bash on Google/Facebook/etc. for clicks.

Needing gov't ID to follow search links is dystopian, and antithetical to the original spirit of the Internet. Google should flat out refuse when governments make these requests.

It looks like it is for YouTube and Play content, not search links.

If so, I don't see how it is any more dystopian than the ID requirements that have long been in place for non-internet media. I don't recall anyone calling it dystopian back in the '70s for instance when we had to show ID to rent movies from the "adult" room at the local video rental store.

Re: Google will soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content

#159

Post by b112 »

sreevisakh wrote: post #151
dessant wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Age verification is already mandated in the EU, and when you provide your credit card details to Google's age verification system for YouTube, they create a payments profile for you without consent. The Google account is set up for purchasing services across all Google properties, without needing to provide further payment details. Google is exploiting the requirement for age verification to set up Google accounts fo…

Google's use of payment profiles is much more nefarious and exploitative. I recently moved from one country to another. There are a lot of apps that provide local services - like banking and public transport information. I wasn't able to install any of them. Why? My original profile is from the country of my previous residence, where I originally bought my phone. None of those apps should be geographically restricted…

Interesting about the non delete.

In Canada at least, through Visa and Mastercard, your expiry date is automatically updated with various people.

This means that never expire, may be just that.

https://www.bngpayments.net/automatically-update-expired-car...

Re: Google will soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content

#160

Post by Symbiote »

adventured wrote: post #147
idiotsecant wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does a credit card in fact verify age? Anyone at all can go buy a prepaid card at the grocery store, right?

> Does a credit card in fact verify age? Anyone at all can go buy a prepaid card at the grocery store, right? A prepaid card isn't a credit card. Payment processors can tell the difference between card types. You have to be 18 or older to get a credit card issued in your name (although you can add an underage authorized user to your card). And there are now other requirements needed if you're under 21 in the US, such…

> To get a debit card you must be either 18 or have a legal guardian who is at least 18 on the account.

Not necessarily. You can be issued a debit card from age 11 in the UK, although it will only do online transactions to prevent the account going overdrawn.

Allowing a parent/guardian control of the account is optional.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/cards-for-under-18...

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