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Google will soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content

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Re: Google will soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content

#81

Post by umbauk »

reaperducer wrote: post #40
lern_too_spel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google could have required people to enter credit card details to download apps at all on their phones, following the precedent Apple had already set. That hasn't happened.

following the precedent Apple had already set This is false. You don't need to give Apple a credit card to download apps. You do need an iTunes account, which can be created without a credit card (I have two with no cards attached). If you only download free apps, you're good. You can fund the account with PayPal or gift cards if you choose to download paid apps. Try to refrain from making stuff up in your defense of…

I set up my 9 year old's apple watch yesterday. I had to enter my credit card details to add it to my Family. I didn't have to do this when linking my child's fitbit.

Re: Google will soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content

#82

Post by dudul »

cmckn wrote: post #28
LewisVerstappen wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"If our systems are unable to establish that a viewer is above the age of 18, we will request that they provide a valid ID or credit card to verify their age.” I don't think Google is complaining too much. Especially if it gives them an excuse to collect credit card data (reducing a significant amount of friction when they sell YouTube premium / google drive subscriptions).

Does google actually save this payment information for use in subsequent transactions? Or is it just used as part of the age verification process?

The answer to "does Google save X?" is "yes" for all possible values of X.

Re: Google will soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content

#83

Post by lern_too_spel »

digitallyfree wrote: post #68
lern_too_spel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google could have required people to enter credit card details to download apps at all on their phones, following the precedent Apple had already set. That hasn't happened.

iOS does not require CC info to download free apps. It's only needed to pay for paid apps (same as Android).

This is not straightforward on iOS, even after iOS 6 stopped strictly requiring it. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251793338

Re: Google will soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content

#85

Post by moonshinefe »

> Governments all over the world have started pushing for ways to collect ID on social media users, often under the guise of providing a safe space for kids online.

Does anyone know how these work on a technical level? Are they actually verifying these IDs with some sort of government API? What's preventing people from just sending fake IDs?

I'm also curious how non-tech giants are going to implement this. It's a big ask for small websites run by single or small groups of people. If they face consequences too, it seems like a win for the social media sites to keep their market positions.

Finally, what's preventing the children from just using non-tech giant sites to get at adult content? If it's literally just for Facebook, Youtube and the like, it'll be about as useless as the "Click here to confirm you're 18+!" verifications since they'll just search elsewhere, on one of the millions of other adult content sites...

Re: Google will soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content

#86

Post by lern_too_spel »

reaperducer wrote: post #40
lern_too_spel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google could have required people to enter credit card details to download apps at all on their phones, following the precedent Apple had already set. That hasn't happened.

following the precedent Apple had already set This is false. You don't need to give Apple a credit card to download apps. You do need an iTunes account, which can be created without a credit card (I have two with no cards attached). If you only download free apps, you're good. You can fund the account with PayPal or gift cards if you choose to download paid apps. Try to refrain from making stuff up in your defense of…

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251793338 no longer requires a credit card after iOS 6 but is still heavy on dark patterns. A credit card isn't even asked for when creating a Google account at all. My point is that Apple either requires or tricks you into giving a credit card to use Apple services, and the only reason this is a big issue for Google is that many Google accounts don't have a credit card already.

Re: Google will soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content

#87

Post by zo1 »

wutbrodo wrote: post #34
nojs wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so what’s the real reason the government wants this?

The ~only reason gov't ever does anything is because they think it looks good to voters. And any given voter doesn't have "wants" or "beliefs", just violent mood swings and social performance. This isn't really even a bug of government's! Government action is very often valuable and necessary. But the incentive structure is such that modeling the gov't as a somewhat-rational entity with well-formed desires is usually…

If that's the case, then we should be able to do a referendum for legislation this "big" to go through, right? I'd argue that the lack of a robust, accessible and easy form of referendums means we're not fundamentally different to a dictatorship.

Re: Google will soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content

#88

Post by zo1 »

forum_ghost wrote: post #44
wutbrodo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ~only reason gov't ever does anything is because they think it looks good to voters. And any given voter doesn't have "wants" or "beliefs", just violent mood swings and social performance. This isn't really even a bug of government's! Government action is very often valuable and necessary. But the incentive structure is such that modeling the gov't as a somewhat-rational entity with well-formed desires is usually…

"Princeton University study: Public opinion has “near-zero” impact on U.S. law.": https://act.represent.us/sign/problempoll-fba/ The government does the bidding of the economic elites. Economic elites don't vote, they buy influence.

I think we also need to realize that those in power aren't necessarily plain old rich like the monocle guy from Monopoly or Mr Burns from the Simpsons. They're just connected, powerful, to a degree rich, and sometimes plain old skilled orators that can convince a lot of people.

Re: Google will soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content

#89

Post by zo1 »

moonshinefe wrote: post #85

> Governments all over the world have started pushing for ways to collect ID on social media users, often under the guise of providing a safe space for kids online. Does anyone know how these work on a technical level? Are they actually verifying these IDs with some sort of government API? What's preventing people from just sending fake IDs? I'm also curious how non-tech giants are going to implement this. It's a big…

One would imagine, but the state of "KYC" in the wild is much less pretty. Some governments don't even have a national identity card (USA, UK) to verify. So instead they verify driver's licenses, passports, utility bills. Others use credit agencies, half-baked and built-up-over-time databases of who knows what, facial recognition, etc. Kicker, most border control checks are no more advanced than looking up a traveler's name surname and date of birth in old lists.

Re: Google will soon ask Australian users to show ID to view some content

#90

Post by WinterMount223 »

iso1210 wrote: post #73
WinterMount223 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain further?

Imagine you are visiting hacker news, and for some reason you have to prove your age, but you don't want HN to know who you are, nor your age identity site to know you're going to HN One way to do this off the top mf my head would be HN issues a unique number (say 4096 bit) to you when you create an account You send that number to your identity provider along with confirming proof of age The identity provider signs t…

That sounds better if you don’t trust the websites but worse if you don’t trust the government or the central checker.
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