Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

dontasktoask.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 391 posts

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#301

Post by closeparen »

endisneigh wrote: post #148

seems kind of dumb - the author is presupposing what the intent was. Not to mention that it's important to have the other person actually acknowledge a conversation is happening. how about: A: Hi! B: What's up...? A: Nothing just wanted to say hi! B: Oh, haha. How's it going? A: I was just realizing we haven't spoke in forever. Where are you these days? ===================================================== Let's say…

This is a great kind of conversation to have when you are e.g. both in the micro-kitchen milling around for snacks. The problem is Slack is not equivalent to the micro-kitchen, but to the whole office.

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#302

Post by igouy »

felix318 wrote: post #95

A bit off-topic perhaps but as a non-native speaker I'm always baffled by English smalltalk. People who reach out to me on Teams usually start with "Hi, how are you" and I never know what is the proper reply because I know the question is not sincere. Why not just say "Hi"? (and this is nothing compared to the seemingly mandatory Monday morning elevator "how was your weekend" question)

Not just English.

https://www.fluentu.com/blog/french/ca-va/

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#303

Post by kevinskii »

frazbin wrote: post #224
locusofself wrote: post #115

As much as I think this should just be common sense, when I see this URL in someone's status message/bio on a work messaging platform, it strikes me as condescending and unprofessional.

I could see that but only if the bio might be read by paying customers of your company. Internally, encouraging people to use their and your time more productively seems like a good idea.. excessive deference in the workplace is communication blocker.

I would never post something like this. I'm just as peeved by "hello" type chat messages as everyone else here, just as I am when someone walks into my office and starts talking to me while I'm doing deep work. But I never want to make a colleague feel bad by doing so. The long term benefits of maintaining a warm and friendly work environment far outweigh the occasional annoyance. Also, most people are smart enough to pick up on subtle involuntary social cues. There aren't many repeat offenders.

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#304

Post by jackbravo »

rtb wrote: post #109
uses wrote: post #91

This reminds me of the chat situation where a coworker will start with "Hi!" typing indicator . In either case, it's like "yes, you have my attention. I cannot focus on anything at all until you hit enter, and I also can't reply because I have nothing to reply to". I also can't complain like "hey if you're going to interrupt me can you just say the whole message so I can actually reply instead of being held in absolu…

There's a similar 1 page site for that problem: https://nohello.net/en/

https://nohello.club

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#305

Post by IceMetalPunk »

nanidin wrote: post #297
VBprogrammer wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slightly more annoying is someone who you do not know giving you a "Hey, how are you doing?". Try, "Hey Bob, this is Alice, I work on the QA team in Dublin. I'm looking at an issue I think you might be able to help me with http://jira.yourcorp.org/browse/ORDERS-1234 . Would you have a minute to discuss this?"

> Slightly more annoying is someone who you do not know giving you a "Hey, how are you doing?". This is a cultural thing - some cultures value small talk as a requisite step in person to person interactions, including in business. Americans do have a reputation of wanting to get straight to business and of dispensing with small talk though. Speaking from experience in France, one can call the same business and make t…

"Hello, how are you? I was wondering if it would be possible to schedule a tour of the winery today?"

This is perfectly fine and valid, and in fact is usually the format of my messages to others. It's entirely different from:

"Hello, how are you?"

...

...

...

"I'm fine; what's up?"

"Oh, I was wondering if it would be possible to schedule a tour of the winery today?"

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#306

Post by Johnny555 »

endisneigh wrote: post #253
Johnny555 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference between: Hi! > and Hi! We haven't spoken in forever, what's up? > What would you do different in the first case that you wouldn't do in the second case?

The difference is that if you want to have the conversation in real time you want to see if they're there first. It's the the same difference between leaving a voice mail and repeatedly calling.

But it doesn't really tell you if I'm available to chat -- my availability depends on context.

If a coworker texts me "Hi" at 7pm, I'm probably not going to respond until work hours. If he texts me "Hi, haven't spoken in a while, let's catch up", then I probably will respond.

Or, if I'm in a meeting and someone texts "Hi", I'm probably not going to answer since I don't know if they have a quick question or want a 30 minute chat, but if they say "Hey, what's the name of that guy in engineering that you said I should see?" then I'll probably just send a quick answer.

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#307

Post by kashyapc »

corobo wrote: post #9

This feels like one of those internet rules that stems from a neurodiverse IRC-type crowd Neurotypical people use this sort of social foreplay as a way to handshake a conversation[1], where the tech types want an input/output process devoid of mood and feeling It is silly and quite time wasting online too, but it's what they need to feel comfortable asking you questions. I figure if they need to adapt to some of my q…

Hi, in my case, it's not for the reasons you imply. I'm perfectly comfortable with and appreciate the importance of the "small-talk handshake", which is more critical in person.

That said, avoiding "naked pings"[1] online is a matter of reducing the amount of mental drain for me. This is especially important for your sanity if you're actively helping out folks on a chat channel (community, or internal). As noted in my comment[1], I don't insist on this, as it doesn't help being dogmatic about it.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30641083

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#308

Post by ghaff »

robbrown451 wrote: post #255
ikornaselur wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will usually fully ignore those. If someone wants to have a synchronous conversation, I want them to state that. Instead of saying "You there?" I would prefer "You have 5 minutes to discuss X?" or "Do you have a moment to hop on a call to chat about ?". That way I can make a decision on if I have time for it or not, instead of having to reply with "I'm here, what do you need?" only for it to end up being something…

"If someone wants to have a synchronous conversation, I want them to state that." The people that I would send a "you there?" message understand that my message is shorthand for that. They might respond with "in a meeting" or "gimme a few minutes" or if they are available for a synchronous conversation, "hey" or "what's up?" I have a couple contacts that are "on the spectrum" and I deal with them a little differently…

Exactly. I won't send ping or hi to a random person over chat. Frankly, I'd be more likely to send them an email with details, requests, etc.

However, there are people who I work closely with who understand that if I do some sort of "are you there?" it's because I want to have a fairly synchronous conversation over the phone or over chat.

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#309

Post by scratcheee »

IceMetalPunk wrote: post #221
dylan604 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because the chat app shows that you are logged in, it does not mean that you are immediately available to chat. If I want to leave a message for someone with a response accepted at their convenience, then I send an email. If I reach out via chat, it's because I expect a realtime exchange. Again, because the little green dot appears next to user's name does not mean they are not deep in the tall grass and readily…

"Just because the chat app shows that you are logged in, it does not mean that you are immediately available to chat." It's 2022, chat app statuses are more sophisticated than just "online/offline" indicators. It will tell you if I'm busy, if I'm in a call, if I'm presenting, if I've been AFK, etc. If I'm online and none of those statuses are true, I can probably engage now. "If I want to leave a message for someone…

In my experience status is not that reliable, but that doesn't change the result, as you mention at the end.

>And even if my status is green but I happen to still be busy for some reason, a chat notification is a chat notification. Saying "hello" is as much an intrusion as saying "hello, I have this problem with , can you help me?" -- except if you just say "hello", then I have to respond and then wait more time for a second intrusive notification to find out what you need.

Yup, that's the key. The cost per distracting notification is _vastly_ higher than the cost per word read, so chat notifications should be crafted to minimise individual notifications more than words.

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#310

Post by dspillett »

jsjohnst wrote: post #280
VBprogrammer wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slightly more annoying is someone who you do not know giving you a "Hey, how are you doing?". Try, "Hey Bob, this is Alice, I work on the QA team in Dublin. I'm looking at an issue I think you might be able to help me with http://jira.yourcorp.org/browse/ORDERS-1234 . Would you have a minute to discuss this?"

> how are you doing? I’m so annoyed by the abuse of this phrase that I’ve taken to giving entirely inappropriate responses (based on context) when folks ask.

Similar. “How it is hanging” usually gets a response of the sort “ To the left, a little lower than usual. Well, you did ask.”.
Post reply on HN