261–270 of 333 posts
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>Russia has no inalienable right to fly over Ukrainian territory. It's not about rights. It's about whether you want to wake up to a mushroom cloud.
The discussion was not about wants, predictions, or evaluation of pros and cons. It was about whether or not declaring a no-fly zone over a country that requests it is an act of violence.
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Does that matter? So national socialist groups are okay in times of war? Associating with Neonazi groups is suddenly fine when they are fighting on the side you cheer for? Fuck the russian government and their war of aggression, unequivocally. Ive lost a distant friend in syria during The russian government's intervention there, and some of my current refugee friends lost their homes to their bombs. So yes I have no…
Yes. When you're fighting for literal survival, if you're so married to virtue signaling at that point that you don't fight the existential threat first, you're probably fucked. Do I like nazis? No. Do I associate with them? No. If working together with one is how I stop some jackass from killing us both, am I going to do it? Sure as hell yes.
Arming literal nazis with weapons and letting them loose in a lawless context is a criminally stupid thing to do. These guys have no problem harming civilians or anyone who they feel like, that’s what makes them bad guys.
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>I am not a supporter of the no-fly zone request from Ukraine, and it would almost certainty escalate the situation to the point of NATO being at war with Russia. However, it would be theoretically possible for the no-fly zone to be imposed without a single Russian plane being shot down—all Russia would have to do is to cease flying over Ukraine. Why not go further? Why stop at the air? Why not make the whole country…
If NATO declared a no fly zone, assuming the Russian government is rational and primarily concerned about about their military objectives, it would immediately remove all their planes from Ukraine because it’s almost certain that the Western powers would obtain full aerial supremacy very fast. And any full scale attempt by Russia to contest it would lead to the destruction of their airforce. With ground forces it’s n…
I'm not sure we can assume that much, given how the invasion has been planned and how it's being executed. Even mainstream Russian media started to criticize it with at least one commentator saying there are no good ways of getting out of this war:
What the actual fuck is wrong with these people? Calling for literal violence against Russians is less dangerous than claiming masks aren't helpful? Is there something here I'm not getting?
Russians are murdering civilians. How can you stop them without killing them?
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Where in the hell are you getting 10% from? Ukraine has a multi-party government and their neo-nazis don't have even a single seat in their rather large parliament.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#Attitudes_in_Uk...
>A poll conducted in early May 2021 by the Democratic Initiatives Foundation together with the Razumkov Centre's sociological service showed that 32% of citizens consider Stepan Bandera's activity as a historical figure to be positive for Ukraine, as many consider his activity negative; another 21% consider Bandera's activities as positive as they are negative. According to the poll, a positive attitude prevails in the western region of Ukraine (70%); in the central region of the state, 27% of respondents consider his activity positive, 27% consider his activity negative and 27% consider his activity both positive and negative; negative attitude prevails in the southern and eastern regions of Ukraine (54% and 48% of respondents consider his activity negative for Ukraine, respectively).
>Monuments dedicated to Stepan Bandera have been constructured in a number of western Ukrainian cities, including a statue in Lviv, as well as Staryi Uhryniv, Kolomyia, Drohobych, Zalishchyky, Mykytyntsi, Uzyn, Buchach, Hrabivka, Horodenka, Staryi Sambir, Ternopil, Ivano-Frankivsk, Strusiv, Truskavets, Horishniy, Velykosilky, Sambir, Velyki Mosty, Skole, Turka, Zdolbuniv,Chortkiv, Sniatyn, and in such cities and villages as Berezhany, Boryslav, Chervonohrad, Dubliany, Kamianka-Buzka, Kremenets, Mostyska, Pidvolochysk, Seredniy Bereziv, Terebovlia, Verbiv, and Volia-Zaderevatska.
>In 2010 and 2011, Bandera was named an honorary citizen of a number of western Ukrainian cities, including Khust,Nadvirna, Ternopil, Ivano-Frankivsk, Lviv, Kolomyia, Dolyna,Varash, Lutsk, Chervonohrad, Terebovlia, Truskavets, Radekhiv, Sokal,Stebnyk, Zhovkva,Skole, Berezhany, Sambir,Boryslav, Brody, Stryi, and Morshyn.
It's going to be really awkward when this is all over and big tech has to pivot back to when nationalism, strong borders, private firearm ownership, and armed neo-nazi militias[0] were all bad things. [0] https://theintercept.com/2022/02/24/ukraine-facebook-azov-ba...
What's awkward right now is how people in the west say "nazi" because some Ukrainians are wearing some pagan symbols while defending their land. While Russians are actually committing was crimes saying Ukrainian nation is not a real one.
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Does that matter? So national socialist groups are okay in times of war? Associating with Neonazi groups is suddenly fine when they are fighting on the side you cheer for? Fuck the russian government and their war of aggression, unequivocally. Ive lost a distant friend in syria during The russian government's intervention there, and some of my current refugee friends lost their homes to their bombs. So yes I have no…
Yes. When you're fighting for literal survival, if you're so married to virtue signaling at that point that you don't fight the existential threat first, you're probably fucked. Do I like nazis? No. Do I associate with them? No. If working together with one is how I stop some jackass from killing us both, am I going to do it? Sure as hell yes.
By not trying to root them out now they will inexorably take over whatever will be left of ukraine. That's almost always what happens with radical armed elements, and as I said they are getting way more comfortable with not even hiding anymore. I can't think of any example where fighting side by side with radical extremists didn't end up backfiring. And beyond that I mean if the UA government can't even get their soldiers to not wear black sun pins openly and openly & explicitly promotes azov on social media, that really does not sound like they are even reluctant to have them on their side.
It's a war and I totally get that it's dirty and that you can't pick and chose your allies everytime. But nazis are an easy line to draw.
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I had never heard of Oliver Stone's "Ukraine On Fire" documentary until YouTube banned it, so I watched it last night to see what the problem was. It seemed to be a well documented summary of the events in Ukraine in the last 25 years or so. One notable thing was the number of times Nazis were entered into the picture, and it is strange that no one is talking about it. I can say my perspective has changed a little bi…
Those Nazi groups may have been established by a certain foreign nation primarily to discredit the civil movement and to establish cause for military intervention.
That's why if you support ukraine, making excuses instead of wanting them gone is just playing right in the hands of russian propaganda. The more those groups grow in influence (like they have been doing since the start of the invasion), the more it's going to be hard to deny for western powers by just claiming it's a Russian red hereing.
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Yes. When you're fighting for literal survival, if you're so married to virtue signaling at that point that you don't fight the existential threat first, you're probably fucked. Do I like nazis? No. Do I associate with them? No. If working together with one is how I stop some jackass from killing us both, am I going to do it? Sure as hell yes.
What you don't seem to realize is that those aren't your LARPer nazis that roam around on discord just to sound edgy and cool. They have literally committed war crimes, rapes and torture. And that's been documented since 2015. By not trying to root them out now they will inexorably take over whatever will be left of ukraine. That's almost always what happens with radical armed elements, and as I said they are getting…
A month ago all the alleged war criminals were sitting in jails (convicted ones are still incarcerated). This doesn't equal to rehabilitation.
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Controversial take. "Nazis who travel to Ukraine to fight Russians are less bad people doing morally and ethically ambiguous things. Once they leave Ukraine, the actions they performed involving Russians are both unethical (because they willingly travelled there to murder conscripted teenagers) and ethical (because they willingly travelled there, presumably to defend the sovereignty of a nation they have tenuous cult…
But most of the nazis people speak of in the context of Ukraine are not foreigners traveling there, but Ukrainian citizens.
I wouldn't be comfortable working with a Nazi on a line in a kitchen, just as I'm sure they'd say the same about me, but if Russia invaded here, I'd be quite comfortable "walking with him to the end of the bridge," as the other poster said. Deal with the day-to-day bologna after you've dealt with the once-in-a-century bologna.