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Japan has declared today that the southern Kurils is their sovereign territory

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Re: Japan has declared today that the southern Kurils is their sovereign territory

#171

Post by tut-urut-utut »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #128
denton-scratch wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tuva (ironically, where Shoigu comes from) is a Buddhist nation that fits into the Mongol-Chinese cultural sphere better than into Russian one. Mongols/Buddhists have a long history in Russia.

A quick glance at Tuva specifically on Wiki has an extremely short period of time in Russia’s political sphere. I’m not sure if the predominately Buddhist parts of Russia have that deep of a Russian history.

Well, just look at any US area, and you'll notice an extremely short USA history, compared to the Native American history and population. And yet, not a single person in the USA talks about Native Americans claiming back their historical and cultural territories. Why? The only reason that comes to mind is Native Americans being effectively extinguished by the USA, while Buddhists/Mongols in Russia are integrated and accepted as a part of the society.

Re: Japan has declared today that the southern Kurils is their sovereign territory

#172

Post by q1w2 »

Fiahil wrote: post #162
mrunkel wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was the last time the US invaded and occupied land on its own?

2003, if I recall correctly ?

Nope: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq#Coalitio...

Re: Japan has declared today that the southern Kurils is their sovereign territory

#173

Post by jhbadger »

Giorgi wrote: post #160
jhbadger wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abkhazians and Ossetians aren't "Russians" ethnically, culturally, or linguistically though. Why would they want to go "back" to Russia (not their homeland)? The whole point of their struggle is ultimately to get their own countries just as other ethnic groups have. They merely accepted Russian aid and citizenship as a way to get out of Georgian rule. Which of course may ultimately be going from the frying pan into t…

They rushed to took Russian passports thus they are Russian citizens and can go back to their homeland Russia. The whole point of their struggle was Russian invasion so Russians could build military bases there (which they eventually did)

You are confusing the motivation of Russia (which was indeed to build military bases) with that of the oppressed minorities. Again, these people are not "Russians". They are traditionally Muslim peoples who speak languages completely unrelated to Russian.

Re: Japan has declared today that the southern Kurils is their sovereign territory

#174

Post by myko »

tada131 wrote: post #151
unfocussed_mike wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are already using 100% of the forces they originally lined up on the Ukraine border. This appears to be something like 75% of their total operational power, with obvious, serious problems, like relying on civilian GPS, being evidently wholly unprepared for the mud, the fact that there's no comms chain back so they rely on Ukrainian comms networks staying up, the lack of a supply chain, the fact that the domestic…

What generals?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/08/vitaly-gerasim...

>> The intelligence arm of the Ukrainian defence ministry said Maj Gen Vitaly Gerasimov, chief of staff of the 41st Army, had been killed outside the eastern Ukrainian city of Kharkiv, along with other senior officers.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/andrei-sukho...

>> Andrei Sukhovetsky was the commanding general of the Russian 7th Airborne Division and a deputy commander of the 41st Combined Arms Army, and by far the most senior Russian figure to have died in the conflict so far.

>> Mr Putin confirmed that a general had been killed in a speech updating the Russian people on the progress of the conflict, eight days into the deadly invasion.

Re: Japan has declared today that the southern Kurils is their sovereign territory

#175

Post by toyg »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #168
EGreg wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hawaii? Philippines / Guam / etc? Guantanamo? Panama canal? But I see Russia invading and occupying, not annexing (unless you mean stationing troops in the “independent” regions). They specifically disavow annexing unless the government refuses to negotiate and sign a peace agreement. They already did this exact playbook in the Russo-Georgian war, down to defending the two breakaway republics, the provocations, the “…

> I see Russia invading and occupying, not annexing Crimea was unambiguously annexed in 2014 [1]. The U.S. hasn’t annexed territory since WWII (the Marshall Islands) or WWI (the Virgin Islands and Kingman Reef). [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_...

They did quite a bit of invading inbetween, though.

Re: Japan has declared today that the southern Kurils is their sovereign territory

#176

Post by neetfreek »

chockchocschoir wrote: post #125
belter wrote: post #9

Russian Migs to "accidentally" cross into Japanese airspace in 3 days... Edit: Of course as follow-up to this accidental event of 6 days ago... "Japan says Russian helicopter violated airspace, scrambles fighter jet" https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2022/03/02/japan-rus...

To be fair, this is not something that just happened recently, nor just in Japan (nor just by Russia). Airspace of multiple nations gets violated multiple times per year by multiple nations, all the time. Although the timing makes it a bit suspected, I'm sure it's just a general test of "readiness", which happens often.

Also recently four Russian jets violated Swedish airspace during joint Finnish-Swedish exercises.

From the linked article, described by the Swedish airforce as '"particularly serious" given the current situation, [who] called the Russian actions unprofessional and irresponsible.'

https://yle.fi/news/3-12341483

Re: Japan has declared today that the southern Kurils is their sovereign territory

#177

Post by ineedasername »

pelorat wrote: post #87
ineedasername wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I view them through the lens of how they exist today, not decades before nearly everyone in the world was alive. I acknowledge their history but do not judge the current leaders or population by it.

Japan is still ruled by conservative traditionalists with questionable views.

Do you think that, given the opportunity, they would commit the same atrocities as their ancestors?

Can those traditionalist views be separated from those atrocities or do those views, given no restraint, inevitably lead to the atrocities? If they would, would that Japanese people allow them to stay in power if they undertook steps in that direction?

Important questions that would need answers before I would revert my opinion to one I might have held if alive 80 years ago.

Re: Japan has declared today that the southern Kurils is their sovereign territory

#178

Post by nullifidian »

inglor_cz wrote: post #141
nullifidian wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vladivostok/Primorsky Krai is ethnically Russian though. If Russia ceases to exist as a mutli-ethnic empire, it would unlikely be the part that breaks off.

There are many Chinese citizens present in Vladivostok. I guess that a potential takeover of the territory would look more like the takeover of Tibet in 1950. A fait accompli executed on a very short timeline.

How many? One thousand? Two thousand? According to the 2010 census there were 2446 ethnic Chinese individuals, right behind 4192 Koreans. Let's suppose it's 5000 now. It would still be less than 1%

All this talk about taking over Russian territory is just pure fantasy. Russia, on a liberal / anti-imperialist wave, even in a bankrupt, extremely weakened state could only become kind enough to detach Yakutia, Caucasus, and some other distinctly ethnically different autonomous regions, but it won't allow anything to happen to the ethnically Russian regions, nor these regions themselves could imaginably see themselves separate. Russia would still be a nuclear power, and I doubt the Chinese would risk a world apocalypse for a piece of tundra.

Re: Japan has declared today that the southern Kurils is their sovereign territory

#179

Post by bluecalm »

throwaway_4ever wrote: post #29

Here’s a good heuristic: if the only people alive for the past change of hands are old enough to physically be incapable of being the ones sent to fight for it, the dispute is over as-is. (Why send the young to fight over something that’s never been an issue for them?) Would save us a whole lot of historical grievances, revanchism and war by retconning the past centuries into a new issue.

As someone who was born under de-facto Soviet occupation, almost 40 years after the end of WWII may I suggest you go stuff yourself with your suggestions?

Suggesting that "it's never an issue for them" is just ignorance of the highest order.

Re: Japan has declared today that the southern Kurils is their sovereign territory

#180

Post by sidibe »

tada131 wrote: post #170
inglor_cz wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are using the fraction of their power that they are capable of supporting and supplying, and that is not needed to guard their long borders and coast. Five million reservists called up into barracks are useless if you cannot transport them into the theater and keep them supplied.

We are using our aviation too accurate for conventional war. As result, we've lost some (2..4) of our decent aircrafts. What supply chains do we need to use more (not ~15) bombers on higher altitudes, e.g. sacrificing precision for being protected from almost-dead Ukrainian ADS ("Buk"s or Stingers, maybe some S-300 near Kyiv)?

What makes you think Ukraine ADS is almost dead, they seem to have shooting down aircraft pretty frequently and are being resupplied by Europe
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