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Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

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Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#181

Post by sofixa »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #176
inglor_cz wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they will win. Their morale is very low, OSINT is full of abandoned vehicles. At this point, they are losing equipment much faster than they can produce new one, no one can churn out a dozen new military helicopters in 2 weeks. This alone will be a major source of attrition. Meanwhile, the Ukrainians are getting very efficient weapons from the West and they are being replenished constantly. If Russia co…

Depends to which sources you're listening to. Reddit and EU mainstream media are filled with constant propaganda that Ukraine is holding up and Russia is suffering from sanctions and loosing the war, but if you listen to actual military experts from the likes of Mi6 and USA agencies, they are skeptical of Ukraine being able to win this and western sanctions barely changing anything in favor of the Ukraine.

That same type of expert predicted that Ukraine will barely last a few days, and cities close to Russia ( Kyiv, Kharkiv) will fall quick. They, as well as the Russians, underestimated Ukrainian resolve, and just how terrible Russian logistics and morale are.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#182

Post by MichaelRazum »

oblio wrote: post #162
MichaelRazum wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you deny that Hamas a terrorist organization send rockets at civilians? They got their territory. Why send rockets? The reason it is rational for them. They need to be in power and get the funding through destruction. By the way some more example where the hate comes from: https://www.jns.org/eu-unpublished-report-finds-palestinian-...

I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying that if you were a member of a population that's being squeezed out of their land, day by day, in a country that at best, if you try to integrate, treats you like a second hand citizen, you can't say for sure what your reaction would be. You could try to pretend it would be a peaceful reaction, but you can't say for sure. Nobody can.

I think you have to distinguish. First the Arab citizens aren't treated any differently that any other citizen. Maybe the personal feelings might be that they are treated differently but definitely not on the institutional level. They are a lot of Doctors and people in high positions there, so they enjoy kind of the best life standard they could have in the middle east.

"squeezed out of their land". The Hamas got untouched territory. They could have build a paradise there. Nobody wants this part of the land. So again why send rockets? There is simple no reason - only to stay in power and get the donations.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#183

Post by sofixa »

MichaelRazum wrote: post #177
vkou wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some arabs in Israel are permitted to vote, just like how some African Americans living in the north had the right to vote pre-CRA/VRA. Pre-CRA/VRA America was also an apartheid state. Most do not have that right, despite being born there, and having no other home country. That some of them are enfranchised is a fig leaf over an apartheid state.

I have to call out this. This is clearly wrong. Every Israeli citizen is allowed to vote. That is a fact. I don't know where you get your facts.

Are Palestinian Arabs Israeli citizens?

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#184

Post by sofixa »

MichaelRazum wrote: post #155
oblio wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Palestinians are obviously under attack, let's not kid ourselves. To this day I don't know where I stand in this conflict, since I understand many of the subtleties of the conflict. But that part is clear, Palestine > under attack. Israely is knowingly "salamy tactic-ing" Palestine. They're slowly chipping away at their regions. They're destroying Palestine through administrative abuse. It's like slowly being cru…

So you deny that Hamas a terrorist organization send rockets at civilians? They got their territory. Why send rockets? The reason it is rational for them. They need to be in power and get the funding through destruction. By the way some more example where the hate comes from: https://www.jns.org/eu-unpublished-report-finds-palestinian-...

That's a bullshit whataboutism-adjacent answer and you should know that.

Hamas use terrorist tactics and are a terrorist organisation. That doesn't in any way change the apartheid-like regime Palestine is under, and the unfairness of all the terrible treatment Palestinians suffer at the hands of Israel. And Hamas' tactics are understandable ( but unsupportable) - what are they to do to fight against Israeli atrocities, expulsions, blockade, apartheid? Submit and accept living in ghettos ? You can't blame them for making a different choice.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#185

Post by glogla »

vogre wrote: post #179
me_me_me wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This post is all over the place, sounds more like armchair general then anything else. > There are rules of war. Rules of war? What? Russians are breaking Geneva Conventions everyday, target civilians fleeing 'the wrong way', usage of mines cluster bombs, terror hit-squads attacking civ and press. They stopped playing by the rules the moment they invaded sovereign country - even US uses plausible excuses before invad…

Quoted post unavailable.

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Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#186

Post by sofixa »

MichaelRazum wrote: post #182
oblio wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not denying anything. I'm just saying that if you were a member of a population that's being squeezed out of their land, day by day, in a country that at best, if you try to integrate, treats you like a second hand citizen, you can't say for sure what your reaction would be. You could try to pretend it would be a peaceful reaction, but you can't say for sure. Nobody can.

I think you have to distinguish. First the Arab citizens aren't treated any differently that any other citizen. Maybe the personal feelings might be that they are treated differently but definitely not on the institutional level. They are a lot of Doctors and people in high positions there, so they enjoy kind of the best life standard they could have in the middle east. "squeezed out of their land". The Hamas got unt…

Israel doesn't want East Jerusalem and isn't creating illegal settlements there and in the West Bank, while simultaneously expelling Palestinians ?

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#187

Post by 331c8c71 »

sofixa wrote: post #178
331c8c71 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> How do you know that? Because CNN? There are videos of people getting blown up, eyewitness accounts, and Ukrainian official accounts. It's not something debatable. > Have you maybe talked to people who didn't want to go there? Or it is the Ukranian government decided "their" people don't want to go there? So you think that many people would want to be refugees in the country actually invading and trying to destroy…

> There are videos of people getting blown up, eyewitness accounts, and Ukrainian official accounts. It's not something debatable.

Obviously people are getting hurt and it's sad and tragic. Russian forces targeting civilians is a different matter though which needs to be substantiated. We simple can't know right now.

> So you think that many people would want to be refugees in the country actually invading and trying to destroy their own ?

I think that people sitting in the shelters for days might be actually quite open to a possibility of getting to a safe place.

> The fact that few, if any, Ukrainians seem to be taking this option, confirm this.

Have you considered a possibility that Ukranian authorities are effectively preventing massive evacuations towards russia/belarus because it would look bad for them in press.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#188

Post by dzikimarian »

331c8c71 wrote: post #173
dzikimarian wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russians shouldn't be there. They invaded independent country. Entire fault is on them. Period. Trying to spin the fact that civilian population wants to defend their country and everything they have in life against Ukrainian government is honestly disgusting. It's hard to grasp like someone working in highly logical field such as software development could be so soaked with propaganda. Turn off the TV comrade.

Quoted post unavailable.

> So they choose to remain in heavily bombed areas to protect their troops stationed there that's what you are suggesting?

Many of them - yes - obviously they don't have troops to win this war, and civilian population is joining. I was personally helping people on the border and while many of them flees, also many travels from the west into Ukraine to help. Not sure why it surprises you - this is quite common in such desperate situation - they are loosing their own country due to pure greed of Russia.

I don't need twitter. I can see results of last Russian visit in my country through the window. My parents and grandparents suffered a lot due to this fact. Nobody wanted Russia then and nobody wants it now in Ukraine. Go home. Stop killing innocent people.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#189

Post by sofixa »

misja111 wrote: post #130
thow-58d4e8b wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how urban warfare goes. Either prolonged Sarajevo-style siege waiting for surrender, or brutal block by block demolition until there's no place where defenders can fire from. The logic of urban warfare hasn't really changed since Stalingrad or Berlin It's also likely the reason the Russian advance stalled. Neither party really wants to go through that hell

Exactly. I don't buy the current narrative in the media that Putin had 'expected to take over Kiev in a matter of days'. Urban warfare is a nightmare, unless the defender surrenders voluntarily there is no other way to win than to completely destroy the city.

> I don't buy the current narrative in the media that Putin had 'expected to take over Kiev in a matter of days'. Urban warfare is a nightmare, unless the defender surrenders voluntarily there is no other way to win than to completely destroy the city.

Unless they expected a surrender ( which seems to be the case - they had advanced paratroop drops and logistics and rations drastically unprepared for a longer term battle,potentially with the help of special ops murdering Zelensky), why even go there then? Nobody sane starts a war with the idea of long term destructive urban fighting. Especially live streamed urban fighting. There's nothing for Russia to win there, so if that was really their plan, it's even stupider.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#190

Post by sofixa »

331c8c71 wrote: post #123
dzikimarian wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/evacuation-rou... However looking at your other activity, I would have to present article from Russia Today. First and foremost Russians shouldn't be there. How evil they were exactly, can be assessed later, when they go back to their side of the border.

> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/evacuation-rou... Mined by whom? > However looking at your other activity, I would have to present article from Russia Today Mainstream western media now is heavily biased for the simple fact that it most of the time even don't report what the Russians are saying on the same matter. I'm checking al jazeera which at least reports both sides .

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