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Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

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Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#171

Post by me_me_me »

vogre wrote: post #164

Quoted post unavailable.

This post is all over the place, sounds more like armchair general then anything else.

> There are rules of war.

Rules of war? What? Russians are breaking Geneva Conventions everyday, target civilians fleeing 'the wrong way', usage of mines cluster bombs, terror hit-squads attacking civ and press. They stopped playing by the rules the moment they invaded sovereign country - even US uses plausible excuses before invading a country to have some credibility.

> If you are arming civilians with hand weapons, you are just killing them.

Yes if you send them out to a frontline. This is urban combat, partisan attacks and quick retreat. Its completely different reality to open field fights.

> No militia can resist regular army.

Tell that to the Afghan villagers, they only fought US and Russia and won both times.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#172

Post by dzikimarian »

vogre wrote: post #164

Quoted post unavailable.

Russians shouldn't be there. They invaded independent country. Entire fault is on them. Period.

Trying to spin the fact that civilian population wants to defend their country and everything they have in life against Ukrainian government is honestly disgusting. It's hard to grasp like someone working in highly logical field such as software development could be so soaked with propaganda. Turn off the TV comrade.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#173

Post by 331c8c71 »

dzikimarian wrote: post #172
vogre wrote: post #164

Quoted post unavailable.

Russians shouldn't be there. They invaded independent country. Entire fault is on them. Period. Trying to spin the fact that civilian population wants to defend their country and everything they have in life against Ukrainian government is honestly disgusting. It's hard to grasp like someone working in highly logical field such as software development could be so soaked with propaganda. Turn off the TV comrade.

No post body was provided.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#174

Post by inglor_cz »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #167
inglor_cz wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"as long as Russia can steamroll Ukraine whenever they feel like it" They don't seem to be pulling it off now. Their capabilites will only degrade once the sanctions bite fully.

>They don't seem to be pulling it off now. Their capabilites will only degrade once the sanctions bite fully. I'd like Ukraine to win, but if you listen to the former head of Mi6 and US military experts, they don't give Ukraine much chance of actually winning, as they're severely outgunned and outnumbered vs Russia, despite aid from the west. Despite taking heavy losses, Russia's use of tried and tested WW2 style of…

I don't think they will win. Their morale is very low, OSINT is full of abandoned vehicles.

At this point, they are losing equipment much faster than they can produce new one, no one can churn out a dozen new military helicopters in 2 weeks. This alone will be a major source of attrition. Meanwhile, the Ukrainians are getting very efficient weapons from the West and they are being replenished constantly. If Russia could have prevented the inflow, they would have done so.

Sieges of big cities are a messy, protracted affair that may take years (see: Sarajevo, Leningrad). They consume enormous resources - e.g. Leningrad was besieged by 750 000 Germans. Russia isn't capable of supplying a much smaller task force right now.

What makes you think that they could mobilize "endless cannon fodder" (e.g. five million men or so), equip them with something more efficient than AK-47s, throw them into the theater and supply them with fuel, ammo and food if they are struggling to supply a mere 180 000?

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#175

Post by 331c8c71 »

fabian2k wrote: post #48
curiousgal wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is genuinely not an attempt at flamewar but why can't civilians just leave? Russia is obviously going to win. It's the same with Palestenians, they obviously have not and will not win against Israel. The logical thing to do is to leave, suffer but be sure that your kids will have it better. But I reckon this isn't about logic?

Russia bombarded the designated areas where civilians were supposed to be able to flee cities. There were also mines found in some of those. And the humanitarian corridors Russia recently designated lead to Belarus and Russia, which is not where the people want to be. The Russian effort to "help the civilians" are just deeply cynical PR and misdirection.

No post body was provided.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#176

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #174
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They don't seem to be pulling it off now. Their capabilites will only degrade once the sanctions bite fully. I'd like Ukraine to win, but if you listen to the former head of Mi6 and US military experts, they don't give Ukraine much chance of actually winning, as they're severely outgunned and outnumbered vs Russia, despite aid from the west. Despite taking heavy losses, Russia's use of tried and tested WW2 style of…

I don't think they will win. Their morale is very low, OSINT is full of abandoned vehicles. At this point, they are losing equipment much faster than they can produce new one, no one can churn out a dozen new military helicopters in 2 weeks. This alone will be a major source of attrition. Meanwhile, the Ukrainians are getting very efficient weapons from the West and they are being replenished constantly. If Russia co…

Depends to which sources you're listening to. Reddit and EU mainstream media are filled with constant propaganda that Ukraine is holding up and Russia is suffering from sanctions and loosing the war, but if you listen to actual military experts from the likes of Mi6 and USA agencies, they are skeptical of Ukraine being able to win this and western sanctions barely changing anything in favor of the Ukraine.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#177

Post by MichaelRazum »

vkou wrote: post #170
MichaelRazum wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An apartheid state. That is clearly wrong. An Arab party is in the government. Even they said that they don't see Israel as an apartheid state. Most of them are living much much better than in any neighbor country.

Some arabs in Israel are permitted to vote, just like how some African Americans living in the north had the right to vote pre-CRA/VRA. Pre-CRA/VRA America was also an apartheid state. Most do not have that right, despite being born there, and having no other home country. That some of them are enfranchised is a fig leaf over an apartheid state.

I have to call out this. This is clearly wrong. Every Israeli citizen is allowed to vote. That is a fact. I don't know where you get your facts.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#178

Post by sofixa »

331c8c71 wrote: post #175
fabian2k wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia bombarded the designated areas where civilians were supposed to be able to flee cities. There were also mines found in some of those. And the humanitarian corridors Russia recently designated lead to Belarus and Russia, which is not where the people want to be. The Russian effort to "help the civilians" are just deeply cynical PR and misdirection.

Quoted post unavailable.

> How do you know that? Because CNN?

There are videos of people getting blown up, eyewitness accounts, and Ukrainian official accounts. It's not something debatable.

> Have you maybe talked to people who didn't want to go there? Or it is the Ukranian government decided "their" people don't want to go there?

So you think that many people would want to be refugees in the country actually invading and trying to destroy their own ? That's ridiculous and everyone knows it. The fact that few, if any, Ukrainians seem to be taking this option, confirm this.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#179

Post by vogre »

me_me_me wrote: post #171
vogre wrote: post #164

Quoted post unavailable.

This post is all over the place, sounds more like armchair general then anything else. > There are rules of war. Rules of war? What? Russians are breaking Geneva Conventions everyday, target civilians fleeing 'the wrong way', usage of mines cluster bombs, terror hit-squads attacking civ and press. They stopped playing by the rules the moment they invaded sovereign country - even US uses plausible excuses before invad…

No post body was provided.

Re: Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission

#180

Post by insickness »

vogre wrote: post #164

Quoted post unavailable.

> Then defenders should let civilians out by any possible way. If they doesn't, they are not the defenders but butchers.

I don't agree that this includes sending those civilians to Russia, as Russia is a trying to get them to do.

> The tactics of Ukrainian Army now is to increase death toll as much as possible, so western media can use it in propaganda.

Do you have some sources for this?

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