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Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

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Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#311

Post by BurdensomeCount »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #305
delegate wrote: post #86

Photos of queues in shops and empty shelves is the only resistance left. Any non-official information about the war is punishable with 15 years in prison camps. What's happening in Ukraine is a tragedy, but what's happening in Russia as a result of sanctions is quite tragic in itself. Currency is in free fall, hundreds of companies closed shops and offices, many will lose their jobs, etc. This will hit marriages and…

> but what's happening in Russia as a result of sanctions is quite tragic in itself. No, it's not. Your actions have consequences. Russia has been attacking neighboring countries and taking parts of their territories. Moldova 1992. Chechnya 2000-2009. Georgia in 1992 and 2008. Ukraine in 2014. They are using the standard scheme of "oh, this part of your country decided to become independent, we will flood it with our…

No post body was provided.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#312

Post by ArnoVW »

sdb0 wrote: post #310
feurio wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Is that a star trek reference?

In the inconceivable case that this is an earnest question, it's from the movie 'the princess bride'. Highly recommend it.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#313

Post by mushbino »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #235
mushbino wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The news doesn't lie to me about the wealthy dodging taxes, but they sure don't report on it. There are also lots of technical truths, but heavily spun.

Actually it's worse, there are lots of media publishing opinions, factoids, and things interesting to their audience. But depending on which media you read you are going to end up with a very different understanding of what is going on. Russia has used this polarization to its advantage in recent years by adding its own targeted misinformation to the mix designed to further increase polarization (as opposed as to mer…

Russian propaganda has been completely steamrolled regarding the current war. The US has by far the most sophisticated propaganda apparatus in world history and it shows when Americans think they are completely free from propaganda. Have you ever seen an American news outlet be against a US involved war? I remember when journalists were threatened with being fired for even trying to speak out against the Iraq war. Does the news ever talk about universal healthcare? All of the American news outlets are owned by the American oligarchy and publish the news that's in their interest. We keep fighting wars, the rich get richer, the middle class continues to disappear, and wages stagnate.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#314

Post by dillondoyle »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #110
erichocean wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> its hard for a foreign nation to buy an entire electorate You sure? According to the US government, a few hundred thousand dollars on Facebook ads was enough to buy a US President (c.f Trump, Donald J).

The US was one of the countries I was talking about that intentionally undermined their own democracy. Did Trump win the popular vote? Would he have had any chance in a proportional voting system? Or if you had to vote? (He himself says no Republican could be elected if people could easily vote). Who made that possible and why?

No. No. No. The constitution, state, and county voting laws.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#315

Post by feurio »

TMWNN wrote: post #138
bergie wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which totally makes sense. Russia is a dictatorship waging a war of aggression a democratic neighbour. Why should we give their state propaganda outlets any amplification?

I am reading Clark's Iron Kingdom: The Rise and Downfall of Prussia ( https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002RI9PMM/ >). Right after hearing about YouTube shutting down Russian state media channels, I was surprised to learn in the book of the extent of the freedom of the press in late 18th-century Prussia. A British visitor wrote that people were as free to speak as back home, citing a work that was very critical of the king…

How did it work out for Prussia?

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#316

Post by threeseed »

dillondoyle wrote: post #35
threeseed wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Provided they are vertically integrated and own the entire supply chain. Otherwise they will find that planes not flying in/out and container ships not delivering will make it hard to import anything at scale. Not that they could pay for goods anyway. Also I suspect China may use its new found leverage to flood the Russian market with their goods.

That's a smart take I have not fully thought through. Beyond just economically, perhaps potential big gains politically by using money & leverage to become the controlling mother that Russia is to Belarus, making russia the dependent & ruled child.

This would make Russia the second child after North Korea.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#317

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

delusional wrote: post #200
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that's going to stop when probably already over crowded Russian jails fill up with dissidents?

Do you not think it's matter at all? Is history already completely laid out and unchangeable? Is the Russian people without any agency in their own lives and the life of their nation?

How much more agency do you think being in jail grants one?

No, I don't think Russians have much, if any, agency in the path their nation takes. For that matter, I don't think many Australians have much agency of Australia - all we get is representative democracy, and the selection of candidates seems to be almost entirely self-serving to the point of no longer even pretending to acting on behalf of those they represent. I understand that I'm able and capable to do more, I just not that interested in public life, I have an unsavoury criminal record, and the local media, owned by a media giant, already is quite fond of reminding everyone of things that happened nearly a decade a go any chance they get.

I think one of three things is going to happen in Ukraine: either Putin gets what he wants, and Europe are ok with that; he doesn't, and a protracted proxy & guerilla war carries on for possibly decades; or lastly he is deposed by what amounts to an inside job. In neither of these three eventualities does and one, or a group of, average Russian's actions have much, if any, impact.

My personal take is that within about three months Russia will have a new leader, although as often is the case in these situations, the new one will likely be worse than the old one.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#318

Post by maigret »

Tepix wrote: post #227
maigret wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? I read almost everywhere about it. Never heard about the Panama Papers?

Look at every single article discussing new taxes for the rich. You will find people (sometimes the article itself) arguing that the rich shouldn't be taxed because their money will "trickle down", despite this myth having been refuted decades ago.

I know at least as many articles saying the opposite. I consume news from at least 4 countries, and I see some countries are more leaning toward one direction. I suggest you widen your news intake then.

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#319

Post by justsomehnguy »

Borrible wrote: post #277
justsomehnguy wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is always funny how people can legitimize anything if it is used against the people they don't like. "Bombing civilians" is unacceptable if they are from "Europe" like Ukraine. "Bombing civilians" is fine if they are savages from Middle East, Africa or "not-Europe", like Russia.

Wow, an early deployment of the Racism card. Bold move, congratulation. But then again, do you really think anybody is still reading this deep in the thread? They're already bored, no shiny tech, just endless babble. But okay, your next move, Godwin’s law. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%E2%80%99s_law Game over.

> still reading this deep in the thread

Yet here you are.

> your next move

But.. you invoked it yourself.

"Game over"

Re: Last Day of IKEA in Moscow

#320

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

delusional wrote: post #200
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that's going to stop when probably already over crowded Russian jails fill up with dissidents?

Do you not think it's matter at all? Is history already completely laid out and unchangeable? Is the Russian people without any agency in their own lives and the life of their nation?

Damn, I wish I was a slightly quicker witted so I could have said something like:

No, I think you're delusional.

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