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Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

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Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#711

Post by pvaldes »

foxfluff wrote: post #412
Glawen wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad truth is that Putin can only be removed from within Russia, by Russians. We cannot attack Russia without risking nuclear war, so imposing hardship to every russians is the best move we have. The guy is mad and made a bad strategic move by starting an unpopular war. This is the opportunity

The sadder truth may be that Russians might not be interested in removing Putin. Decades of propaganda, murdering of opposition, and authoritarian response to protests has grown a people that largely believes in their leader and is also afraid to openly oppose authority.

So most Russians are innocent and suffer by unfair sanctions that should be directed instead towards people Pro-Putin, like most Russians claim to be?

This looks like a circular argument.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#712

Post by MonkeyClub »

enaaem wrote: post #667
throwoutway wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps rather than protesting, silently walking around holding signs that use of sarcasm? (To circumvent the anti-speech laws) “Putin is king! Glory to USSR!” “Synonyms for conflict may contain the words: war, special operation” “Is the special operation over yet? My mother wants to see my brother” “What’s next Vladimir?” Subtle civil disobedience that the cops will overlook until it’s too late (I’m making a lot of…

Turning "special operations" into a meme is a great idea. Use it jokingly in every day life. If everyone start using it you have won your first battle.

So, Putin won?

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#713

Post by [deleted] »

tsol wrote: post #467
simion314 wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but I can see why they want Ukraine, a country that is in their borders, to stay in their orbit. Ukraine is not a Russian region that wants to separate, it is a independent democratic country and Putin pretends is part of Russia. I can also see why Putin wants Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia(he said he wants to restore URSS) but why should we say "bad luck, let him have them and let's buy more gas"

>but why should we say "bad luck, let him have them and let's buy more gas" The whole point of my post was responding to the idea that "we must oppose Russia to prevent nuclear war". If that's the real objective, then yes it makes sense to say "well too bad" and but intervene like we do in Tigray and most of the conflicts around the world. I don't see why this particular human rights violation is inexcusable when the…

[deleted]

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#714

Post by itwillnotbeasy »

Leaving not because of the crimes of the current regime but because of the sanctions affecting their quality of life. I had many online "friends" and distant relatives from Russia, and most of them is like "not my business", i don't care about politics, even when you show pictures with all horrors of war. The other part is like: I'm against this, but what can we do, it's too risky to protest, i can get arrested for 14 days. Whereas in Ukraine: unarmed people stopping tanks at risk of being killed. Mind-blowing how different our nations is. So don't worry much about people who can't leave country now, they are complicit in their inaction no less than the regime itself.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#715

Post by kikimora »

throwoutway wrote: post #599
enaaem wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can read the book: Blueprint for Revolution: How to Use Rice Pudding, Lego Men, and Other Nonviolent Techniques to Galvanize Communities, Overthrow Dictators, or Simply Change the World It proposes many interesting strategies and ideas on how to protest in dictatorships. Be subtle, use humor and focus your message on the most common people. Don't call for democracy, free speech or anything like that. You will be…

Perhaps rather than protesting, silently walking around holding signs that use of sarcasm? (To circumvent the anti-speech laws) “Putin is king! Glory to USSR!” “Synonyms for conflict may contain the words: war, special operation” “Is the special operation over yet? My mother wants to see my brother” “What’s next Vladimir?” Subtle civil disobedience that the cops will overlook until it’s too late (I’m making a lot of…

You’ll be taken to a police dept by the first cop. Any form of protest is effectively banned. Sometimes with severe consequences.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#716

Post by kikimora »

artyomxyz wrote: post #378
andrey123 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Disclaimer: Russian] According to my estimations, probably at least 95% of people who are "against the war" do not go out to participate in protests. My estimations are based on talking to my colleagues (large IT company). Yes, starting from now, protesting becomes more risky (you may go to jail for years if you get caught second time). But just a week ago, it was mostly harmless (yes, some people get arrested for f…

In some way you’re right. But it’s important to note that we haven’t chosen this government, we haven’t chosen this country we live in. I personally lost any hope to change it one year earlier after participating in pro-Navalny protests. Now, I just don’t want to have anything in common with this government. I’m choosing another one. And I’m not going to pay taxes to Russian government anymore

This is exactly what Russian government wants. It does not need this much Russians. It will be happy to have maybe 500 000 of them, just enough to pump oil and gas.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#717

Post by lowkey »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #669
lowkey wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The net effect is the same. Average Russian citizens are being treated as pawns and they will face the most brutal effects of these sanctions. Oligarchs and authoritarians in Russia have options and resources to weather the storm. Many everyday Russians live close to hand to mouth and they will suffer. I don’t accept the decision to dehumanize an entire nation’s citizens for the acts of their authoritarian elite. The…

>The net effect is the same. It's not though. The west doesn't come to Russia and shove their grubby hands into the bank accounts of ordinary Russians to steal their money, resources and taxes, and starve them to death. Russia does that to their citizens and bares the sole responsibility of these actions, not the west. Like come on, Russia can choose to stop the wear at any time and the sanctions would be lifted but…

> So we should just let Russia invade whatever country it wants and kill their way through Europe because otherwise ordinary Russian citizens might suffer?

No, absolutely not but that is a false dichotomy and I think you also know that. This isn’t a simple binary choice between doing nothing and imposing broad-stroke sanctions on every single citizen of Russia.

One simple first step could be for the US and Germany and the rest of Western Europe to simply stop buying oil from Russia and thereby cut off further direct funding for Putin’s war. We know that sanctions on regular citizens hurt regular citizens while cutting off oil purchases directly impedes the Russian state’s ability to wage war. Which do you think would be more effective?

As for increasing energy costs on Europeans and also Ukrainians who I understand are paying up to half their take-home wages to heat their homes, I think the easiest course of action would be for Western governments to directly subsidize energy prices in the short term while simultaneously cutting fuel and carbon taxes on those affected.

I don’t agree with your assessment of my logic that I would let Hitler exterminate anyone and I would appreciate it if we could keep the discussion civil.

I am not your enemy. I want this war to end ASAP as much as you do. We are simply advocating different strategies to achieve the same goal - peace.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#718

Post by bigfudge »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #410
ModernMech wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putin tried to run the GWB playbook with his invasion but he got impatient. He didn't have a 9/11 handed to him like GWB did. Putin's excuse is too flimsy about a Nazi genocide against Russians. There wouldn't be any sanctions whatsoever against Putin if he had planes flying into a building in Moscow.

Putin is playing the kosovo card. An area with a minority, self declared independence, minority and majority fighting every now and then, and then the "outside player" deciding to attack the whole country to "protect the minority". For us in the balkans, america has always been a bigger threat to peace (and still is), especially after having plane fly above our roofs to bomb a country 200miles away, and not that long…

His mistake is to mix up these plays. If he had stuck to that balkans play it would all be a lot harder to argue with from a western perspective. We just don’t know enough t about Eastern European politics/beefs. But he’s also talked about Russian security and nato expansion and denazification which is so stupid as to make a mockery of any sensible rationale.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#719

Post by gspetr »

ericmay wrote: post #548
pydry wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So only some countries have the right to decide their international affairs? Should Russia schedule a delivery of nuclear weapons to Cuba for this week or next? >Ya know The Us feels very threatened by Belarus. They should have to withdraw from their alliance from Russia and decouple Is that because of its close proximity to Maine? I guess it's closer than Iraq...

> Should Russia schedule a delivery of nuclear weapons to Cuba for this week or next? Frankly, I couldn’t care less. But if you think a country choosing to ally with a country is the same as positioning nuclear weapons, well, that’s your problem. Recall that Russia exited nuclear arms treaties and controls, which were the result of an insane arms buildup and included activities like putting missiles in Cuba. Even the…

>Recall that Russia exited nuclear arms treaties and controls

From game theory stand point that is the only course of action to maintain MAD.

If you're falling behind in drones and high precision weapons, it would be very disadvantageous if everyone went nukeless.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#720

Post by filoleg »

freedomben wrote: post #575
novosel wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, where will You find it? (The new government I mean) Things are, The Reality is, much more complicated.

Seconded. I'm in the US but I've looked into emigrating to quite a few different countries (including some with reputations for being more friendly to immigration such as Australia), and it's a lot harder than it sounds. I had a work visa in Canada for several months but then covid hit and they closed the border. Israel seemed like the easiest process I found, but only if you are Jewish (although temporary work permi…

> This forces you to either renounce your citizenship entirely (which is extremely risky to do until you have permanent citizenship elsewhere, which can take many years)

Pretty much no country will let you renounce your citizenship until you already have a citizenship (not permanent residency, actual citizenship) of another country. This is done to prevent people from becoming "stateless". And the process for renouncing the US one is much simpler and easier compared to a lot of countries out there.

Not trying to be condescending or snarky here, but if that quote accurately represents the level of knowledge you have about immigration processes in general, I suggest you do way more research before you actually attempt to immigrate or even temporarily move to another country.

Source: me being a naturalized American citizen who has been (unsuccessfully) trying to get rid of his Russian citizenship for many years.

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