Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends • Hacker News Board

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#341

Post by jacquesm » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:55 PM UTC

therusskiy wrote: post #335

drakonka wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting sentiment, to ask people who aren't Russian and do not live in Russia to come protest on your behalf to overthrow your dictatorship. Do you think foreigners coming into Russia to protest (or violently riot, as you seem to be suggesting) would do the trick? That's a legitimate question - would Russians take kindly do that kind of initiative? Many Russian people, even the ones claiming that most o…

"Black lives matter" and "Moscow election protests" happened around the same time. I have nothing against BLM, but I can say that many Russians got plenty upset, that all countries had huge protests around the world (even New Zealand) to support BLM, while Russian protests were completely ignored by the international community. Nobody is asking to come to Russia, but we've been alone in our fight with Putin all along…

Black Lives Matter protests were about an internal affair in countries not yours, and just like it would be pretty weird to expect Russians to turn up there to help out I think it is a bit strange to expect Westerners to come to Russia to effect change.

The Russian protests were not 'completely ignored', it's just that all we can really do here is report on them.

> I guess he is our problem now

He always was. Now he is also Ukraine's problem (more so than in the recent past).

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#342

Post by adrian_b » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:56 PM UTC

akrymski wrote: post #293

b112 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was the last time the US invaded, with an intent to never, ever leave? When was the last time the US invaded, and slaughtered civilians, on purpose, just to spread terror. Not by accident, or a rogue element, but purposefully. When was the last time the US jailed, not by a mistake in justice but on purpose, all who dared speak out about her actions? And killed them when possible? Many reading the above will say…

I'm 100% against the war, but the American hypocrisy here is next level. This isn't an ethnic genocide. Had Putin wanted to kill civilians you wouldn't have 100s of deaths but millions like in Iraq and Afghanistan. Just like the US he is looking to overturn the government. The reality is that some people in Ukraine (Donbas and large portion of the East) do support Russia. Truth is never black and white.

You are right that there are many people in Ukraine who support Russia.

However, we should not forget why this is so.

During WWII and after WWII, the Russians have forcibly moved a very large number of people from the territory that is now in Ukraine, to various unpleasant locations in the Soviet Union, mostly in Siberia.

Then they have brought Russian colonists, who were settled usually in the houses from which the natives had been evicted.

The descendants of those Russians brought in Ukraine, mostly by Stalin, have obviously not been happy with the independence of Ukraine, when they have become a 2nd rate nationality from a previously privileged one, like also the Russian colonists from other former parts of the Soviet Union, e.g. the Baltic countries or Georgia.

I agree that the Russians, now in minority, have their rights like anyone else, and they should not be persecuted by the new majority, but at the same time I do not believe that people who have so recently occupied by force the land on which they live now have the moral right to request "democratically" that their present country should become again a part of the empire which gave them houses and jobs, but those houses and jobs were provided by what was stolen from the former inhabitants.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#343

Post by risyachka » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:56 PM UTC

ushakov wrote: post #233

mbreese wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not only about revolting, but without a free press, economic sanctions are one way to get people to know that something is going on. Russian citizens may not even know what is happening, but when they suddenly can’t buy thing, when Apple Pay stops working, when costs skyrocket… that gets people to pay attention.

everyone in Russia knows what's going on but when Apple Pay stops working, when costs skyrocket the blame will be on companies and on the west take it from ex-Russian

>> everyone in Russia knows what's going on

Maybe in your circle.

You should open Odnoklassniki for a change. Or any propaganda website that gets tens of millions of readers per day. And those who know the truth would never open that because there is zero pieces of truth in them.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#344

Post by BbzzbB » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:56 PM UTC

therusskiy wrote: post #6

I managed to escape the country yesterday, had to flight to Egypt of all places, because ALL (even business) tickets were sold out. The recent news is that starting March 6 all international flights are suspended, the trap has closed. The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countries treat you as enemy. I am at Georgia now and banks refuse to open bank accounts to Russians, and I need…

I'm glad you left in time, hope you find somewhere to stay and that your loved ones are safe too.

First sinister thought that crossed my mind when two days ago I heard he'll likely prevent people fleeing on the 5th was that there must be some 40 million "fighting aged" men not doing essential work (for a military economy) under a despot out of medieval times. How significant do you consider the probability he's blocked people from leaving and declared martial law in order to conscript hordes of non-reserved men into military training or straight into the meat grinder? Especially if Ukraine drags on for weeks and months, let along if there's contagion to other countries.. Do you think that's the path Russia could be on or it's more about avoiding an exodus and increased inner panic?

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#345

Post by SeanLuke » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:56 PM UTC

lenkite wrote: post #130

Tistron wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everywhere I've seen anyone motivate restrictions on Russian citizens it's been about pushing them to revolt against their government, not about punishing. I don't know whether it makes sense, but it does seem like one of few avenues to try to get rid of putin that has low chance of resulting in atomic war.

Didn't see any revolting Americans when the Iraq War was initiated.

Then you didn't look very hard.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#346

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:58 PM UTC

bsedlm wrote: post #11

therusskiy wrote: post #6

I managed to escape the country yesterday, had to flight to Egypt of all places, because ALL (even business) tickets were sold out. The recent news is that starting March 6 all international flights are suspended, the trap has closed. The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countries treat you as enemy. I am at Georgia now and banks refuse to open bank accounts to Russians, and I need…

a lot of people seem ok with punishing Russian individuals for the actions of the government. maybe these people have grown in better functioning democracies (unlike Russia or my own country) so they act as if the people were well represented by their governments; unlike reality for most countries with a serious corruption problem.

[deleted]

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#347

Post by lodovic » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:58 PM UTC

pelasaco wrote: post #228

lolinder wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, it doesn't look at all like we can practically expect a popular revolt. For me there are two outcomes to target with the sanctions: * Make life unpleasant enough for the oligarchs that they replace Putin with someone less intent on ruining the nice thing they had going. * Handicap Russia's ability to wage war. This includes eliminating their ability to buy supplies and destroying their morale. It's the…

> * Handicap Russia's ability to wage war. This includes eliminating their ability to buy supplies and destroying their morale. But if we still fear the atomic war, he can still threatens Europe with that.

Nuclear weapons are very delicate and expensive to maintain, especially if you have thousands of them. After having seen the awful state of their tanks and army trucks, I'm less worried about their nuclear abilities.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#348

Post by lenkite » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:59 PM UTC

philliphaydon wrote: post #267

lenkite wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't see any revolting Americans when the Iraq War was initiated.

If Iraq happened today I think more people would be upset and protest. In 2001 I don't even think I had a cellphone, we didnt have social media like we do now, the only source of news was the News Paper and TV. If it happened now we would be blastered on twitter with videos / photos of it happening in real time like we are know. Much more aware of war crimes happening. We can't change what happened in the past but I…

I remember getting completely shut down by my American friends when I told them about atrocities committed by US soldiers and that Saddam had no nuclear weapons. It was like talking to a wall at the time. You don't understand - we are fighting this war for the world's safety, blah-blah.

Maybe the next US war will be different ? I doubt it. US propaganda makes Russian propaganda look like amateur hour. Stuff that doesn't fit the mainstream narrative will be shutdown hard, while stuff that fits it will be amplified continuously.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#349

Post by ModernMech » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:59 PM UTC

filomeno wrote: post #288

tartoran wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is the country of protests, there were plenty of protests against that war. I’ve been to a few myself.

Oh, it's good to know that. Maybe Russia could get away with the invasion without sanctions just letting his people protest against the war. No matter if the outcome of the war is the same, or if Putin is elected again (as happened with George W. Bush in the US).

Putin tried to run the GWB playbook with his invasion but he got impatient. He didn't have a 9/11 handed to him like GWB did. Putin's excuse is too flimsy about a Nazi genocide against Russians. There wouldn't be any sanctions whatsoever against Putin if he had planes flying into a building in Moscow.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#350

Post by risyachka » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 5:59 PM UTC

akrymski wrote: post #262

nerkicacy wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans can change government during election every few years if they don't like it. Russians can't. That's why the only way is 'the average Joes need to go out to the streets and bring Putin down'.

Except you get 3-15 years in jail for protesting in Russia.

Go watch how people go with bare hands to protest russian forces literally this minute.

And yes, they don't risk 3-15 years of jail. They have hundreds of times higher chance to die.

But they don't use it as an excuse.