Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends • Hacker News Board

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#571

Post by ericmay » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:47 PM UTC

Etherlord87 wrote: post #566

ericmay wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea I can't imagine. The whole situation is just shit and it is all because of one guy. My wild hope for this situation is that somehow Putin and his gang are ousted, and we can Marshall Plan Russia into a successful, prosperous European democracy. Even make them a partner with NATO like we tried to do before. Admittedly the Russian people would have to want that, so that's a precondition, but I'm hopeful.

> it is all because of one guy. It's not. There's many ways in which you can get in contact with russians. And many of them actually support putin. Yes, you can say people are indoctrinated. But maybe so is putin - that's the problem with determinism. hitler was not one guy. putin is not one guy. I'm against lifting sanctions when putin dies. Much more has to be done.

Yea you’re right.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#572

Post by akrymski » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:49 PM UTC

nerkicacy wrote: post #325

akrymski wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except you get 3-15 years in jail for protesting in Russia.

You could get shot in the head during Euromaidan[1] demonstrations in Ukraine (2013-2014). And they were able to remove Viktor Yanukovych from office. Many other countries escaped from Russian influance thanks to mass demonstration (Poland, East Germany, ex USSR nations). It is not easy, but there is not other way. Only Russian can dethrone Putin, no one else. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

Yanukovich had far less support and had opposition. Ukraine's military presence was a fraction of Russia's. Already more Russians have been arrested in protests so far this week than in Maidan, but unless millions rise up it's impossible to remove Putin. When you shoot at a king and you miss you only solidify his position.

Furthermore Maidan had assistance from the US. No such thing exists in Russia.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#573

Post by dzikimarian » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:49 PM UTC

tsol wrote: post #409

adventured wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> NATO/the West is choosing to worsen the lives of 144 million Russian citizens due to the actions of ~several hundred people. That's the single biggest falsehood of this whole thing propaganda wise: that the Russian people aren't responsible for what's going on. The Russian people are responsbile for their culture, which keeps producing and promoting authoritarianism, decade after decade, generation after generation…

And western people are responsible for a culture that colonizes half the world. Why do you always escape punishment?

First of all - most of the countries recognized their mistakes and got rid of governments pushing for such things.

Secondly - many ghosts of the past are still torment western countries (e.g. last year BLM protests), and in general they are at least recognized as a problem, by general population, not that stubbornly deflected and "whatabouted" as we can observe now in Russia.

BTW I'm not westerner. I'm living far closer to the Russia, than I would prefer to - because honestly whole world moved ahead, and in general got better (admittedly very inconsistently), and Russia is well... Russia - same for as long as I know.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#574

Post by tw20212021 » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:49 PM UTC

dennis_moore wrote: post #477

grujicd wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK Air Serbia is still flying to Russia, and even doubled number of flights few days ago because of demand. I don’t know what’s the situation with visas, how long you can stay, how it is to open bank account, etc but historically Serbia is friendly towards Russia. Government does condemn Russia for this war, but I don’t think we’ll be implementing any kind of sanctions. Elections are in a month, and noone wants to…

With the EU having banned Russia from its airspace, I wonder what route these flights take.

Just check flightradar24. I see one from Moscow to Belgrade flying now over Poland.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#575

Post by freedomben » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:50 PM UTC

novosel wrote: post #523

moonchrome wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But it’s important to note that we haven’t chosen this government, we haven’t chosen this country we live in. From my perspective this is the only meaningful change you can make. If my government ever starts getting in my way too much I'll find another one. Voting with my feet literally. We have this luxury as in-demand professionals. Kind of hard for me to empathize with Russian developers when they had decades to…

And, where will You find it? (The new government I mean) Things are, The Reality is, much more complicated.

Seconded. I'm in the US but I've looked into emigrating to quite a few different countries (including some with reputations for being more friendly to immigration such as Australia), and it's a lot harder than it sounds. I had a work visa in Canada for several months but then covid hit and they closed the border. Israel seemed like the easiest process I found, but only if you are Jewish (although temporary work permits are liberal there). The US also complicates things by being the only (?) nation on earth that still taxes it's citizens even if they didn't step foot in the country the whole year. This forces you to either renounce your citizenship entirely (which is extremely risky to do until you have permanent citizenship elsewhere, which can take many years), or be exploited by the US gov.

What countries are the best/easiest for immigration?

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#576

Post by rmbyrro » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:50 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #367

hatsubishi wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spain is a very rich country though, 10th in the world by total wealth. What you're comparing is the current GDP, which is a different thing than being rich, it's production. In Spain production may be lower but still people enjoy a great quality of life because they are living of the wealth generated before, i.e. everything is extremely cheap including real estate.

>wealth generated before Yeah, "generated".

"Generated"... by Africans and South Americans. But yesterday it was OK to do what Russia is doing now.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#577

Post by fprct » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:50 PM UTC

tsol wrote: post #376

traceroute66 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot of people seem ok with punishing Russian individuals for the actions of the government. Its easy to say that but you have to look at the bigger picture. It's easy to say "just punish the government / the oligarchs", but as most Westerners know, these people have become extraordinarily adept at hiding their money and distributing their assets. So it is very difficult indeed to target them per-se, hence you nee…

Quoted post unavailable.

> If Mexico has a treaty with China and begins stationing Chinese troops, USA certainly would have a big problem with that.

Sorry, but this is nonsense analogy. The correct one would be: China attacks Mexico against its will.

If Ukraine wanted to be part of Russia, they would do so via a referendum, just like UK left EU. The referendum would have high turnout and at least 50%+ of population would vote YES, we want to integrate with Russia. That's how things are done when there is a legitimate reason to believe that some country and its residents want such geopolitical change.

"I fail to see why it's a bigger deal than lives lost in Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Myanmar, Tigray, Palestine, or any of the other places in recent history where there have been scores of human rights violations"

In terms of tragedy of individuals, it's not "a bigger deal". It's a bigger deal in terms of global security of the western nations and their values. And spare me condescending tone about those values not being ideal or ideally followed - if you have doubts about them then try to change them or relocate to better places - I don't know, maybe to Moscow?

" But if we're really concerned about war with a nuclear power above all else, we shouldn't be poking the bear in its backyard at all "

The bear has entered your backyard.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#578

Post by freedomben » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:50 PM UTC

baq wrote: post #536

novosel wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, where will You find it? (The new government I mean) Things are, The Reality is, much more complicated.

Corrupt west, of course. At least you can say what you think. Most of the time.

Just not in "private" spaces, like 99% of the internet, if you're open minded to ideas like the Lab Leak Theory (TM) back when that was verboten.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#579

Post by Etherlord87 » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:50 PM UTC

pelasaco wrote: post #496

hutzlibu wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you would have been in favor of punishing german jews like Einstein, for getting out and not staying to change the system from within?

If he was supportive to Adolf H. until the point that it wasn't comfortable for him anymore? Absolutely, but that was never the case. I have/had a lot of friends in the IT industry from Russia. You absolutely couldn't engage in any political discussion without them exercise their whataboutism.

We live in beautiful times. We can ask everyone, e.g. the OP, if he can give some links to his opinions here on HN or on twitter or elsewhere - where he criticized russian government for attacking Ukraine. Surely some russians did it, but most sadly didn't.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#580

Post by ddalex » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 7:51 PM UTC

sharpneli wrote: post #438

dan-robertson wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a counter argument is that these measures allow the situation to be described in Russia as a ‘west vs Russia’ situation which lines up well with media narratives people have been hearing for years rather than a ‘Russian army sent to kill Ukrainians’ which is less popular (eg many Russians will have close ties to some people in Ukraine). It feels to me that the best thing western governments could do is to sig…

It's abundantly clear what the conditions are: Stop the attack against their neighbour and the sanctions are lifted. Anything less let's Putin get away once again. And right now every country in Europe, and their citizens, are sick of Putin getting away every single time. I do have a personal stake in this. We're the only western neighbour of Russia that is not in NATO and has not been attacked by them after the fall…

> : Stop the attack against their neighbour and the sanctions are lifted.

That would be too easy - there needs to be war reparations paid to Ukraine too - although nothing will bring back the lost lives.

So what about - yes, sanctions lifted, and the 300 billion Russian state stashed away is given to Ukraine.