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Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

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Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree it would change minds. And at the same time I'm pretty sure it would end in a bloodbath. Passive resistance against a dictatorship is a lot safer than active resistance. Of course the latter sends a more powerful message but it makes it obvious who to target, when and where and the reflexive response will be to lash out. Still, there is safety in numbers so maybe it would work. But I would not immediately bet…

There are already young people brave enough to protest with just 2000 people protesting. I'm talking about a million people standing outside and walking towards the Red Square, shaking their keys. If Russians cannot manage this, then I do not have sympathy whatsoever.

Those people are especially brave because the numbers are so low. But they are being made an example out of and that will have a chilling effect on whoever might have followed them.

> If Russians cannot manage this, then I do not have sympathy whatsoever.

If you haven't seen this firsthand, then I understand.

But I have seen it firsthand. Here is how it went: in the 80's, when solidarity was rising up in Poland a relatively small minority drove the revolution, and found support in a large chunk of the younger generation and some in older people as well.

But the bulk of the Poles had seen it all before. Small uprisings that were brutally smacked down, with the local secret police making lists of people to raise from their beds in the inevitable crackdown. So they were advising their kids not to go to the Solidarity rallies, not to protest and so on. In some families this led to harsh words, and some families never really recovered.

Because that one time those kids and the people behind Solidarity were right, they prevailed. They managed to achieve critical mass. They showed that you too could be brave and on the right side of history, and live to tell the tale. And eventually, after the wall fell of course all those other people suffered from memory loss and they too had been present at probably every demonstration, instead of sitting quaking in their house about the kind of terrible thing those idiot youngsters were bringing down on their houses. But make no mistake: for all the same money the army would have opened fire on the protests. It wasn't a 'done deal' until it was and it could have very easily gone the other way, as it had so many times before.

And note that it was tried:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacification_of_Wujek

(I really don't like the title of that article) and even if you may see the death toll as 'acceptable' the fact is that those people died and if the same thing had happened in for instance Gdansk the death toll would have been a very large multiple of that. It may not have been enough to break the back of Solidarity, but that's not something we will ever know for sure.

If you've seen the kind of bravery in Russia in the last couple of years, regarding the murders of journalists, the jailing of opposition politicians and so on then you really have to keep a little bit of room for the cowards that were right every time so far, and who can not with all their fantasy see a million people march on the Kremlin. And by not being able to see it they indeed make it less likely. If it happens it should be massive. 2000 people will get arrested, a substantial multiple of that might get shot, and we're nowhere near the point where a million people would mobilize. But if and when they do, there will be a lot of blood flowing and at the end of it Putin will be gone. But they'd better bring something more potent than just their housekeys.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#272

I managed to escape the country yesterday, had to flight to Egypt of all places, because ALL (even business) tickets were sold out. The recent news is that starting March 6 all international flights are suspended, the trap has closed. The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countries treat you as enemy. I am at Georgia now and banks refuse to open bank accounts to Russians, and I need…

I think only lesser people would think all Russians support Putin. Every Russian I know in Silicon Valley that are sickened by Putin.

Eric Stalwall, the House Representative in East Bay (of the SF Bay Area) proposed to kick all Russian students out of the US. That sickened me and I won't forget this going forward (he ran for Democratic nominee for President in 2020). How can you blame citizens of the country for the country's actions? That's like Japanese internment camps all over again. I can't believe in 2021 someone would propose such a stupid and horrifying thing, especially in the Bay Area.

I'm glad you were able to escape safely.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a colleague from Russia who moved here a few years ago. But.. still he is using talking-points that come from Kremlin's propaganda, like "The US will fight Russia to the last ukrainian" and "I would feel safer here if we weren't in NATO, this makes us a target for Russia" and "You know that it was promised that NATO wouldn't expand?" and "Your country joined the Soviet Union voluntarily". So.. even when some p…

>>>still he is using talking-points that come from Kremlin's propaganda, like "The US will fight Russia to the last ukrainian" That's considered "Russian propaganda"? We've managed to goad Putin into grinding up his conventional military in a large-scale war. We've set the Russian economy back decades. And we've so far pulled off both of these, without any NATO member paying a massive price in blood for it. Russian p…

He explained that the crisis in Russia is the fault of / was somehow started by the US.

He said that a few months ago, not this week. Now he doesn't say anything anymore.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#274
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans about US wars: 'we cannot do anything about our government - they engage in wars and we couldn't stop them if we tried' Americans about Russian wars: 'the average Joes need to go out to the streets and bring Putin down'

When was the last time the US invaded, with an intent to never, ever leave? When was the last time the US invaded, and slaughtered civilians, on purpose, just to spread terror. Not by accident, or a rogue element, but purposefully. When was the last time the US jailed, not by a mistake in justice but on purpose, all who dared speak out about her actions? And killed them when possible? Many reading the above will say…

The u.s. is the most warlike country on the planet.

I say this as a US citizen hasn't improved of any of the US invasions and wars in my lifetime.

The idea that bombing and invading Syria Iraq and Afghanistan were somehow defensive wars is a joke

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I apologize in advance for some emotion that'll come out in the rest of this comment, but I feel the need to say it. I wish Russian people would then stop telling me all about how most Russians are against Putin and hate him, and then act completely helpless at the thought of doing anything about it. They are just empty words, then, because they're followed by plenty of excuses for inaction. My grandfather is spendin…

it may be selfish, but I don't want to sit in prison and be beaten by police. If you are against Putin, why haven't you supported Russians in 2019 when they took to streets against him? Came to our country with Molotovs? Or was it too far away from you? Everybody was just "concerned" by it and now you and me are paying the pric, because since then it's even harder for us to organize and do anything about this crazy s…

Compared to dying because of a high explosive bomb landing in the middle of your apartment building I think you got the better deal.

Keep in mind that just having choices is a luxury.

Oh, and your dictator, your primary responsibility. Or do you blame the West for Putin?

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#276
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong question. If Russians have a choice, why not Ukrainians? People who don't wont to fight are bad as soldiers so why force them?

> Wrong question. If Russians have a choice, why not Ukrainians? Ask the Russians who are bombing them and preventing them from leaving. Russia has already broken the cease-fire meant to evacuate civilians. Or ask the Russians who started the war. Ask the Russians carrying out their leadership's orders. Russians are the ones taking away Ukrainians' choices.

Their government prevents them leaving too if they are male.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2022/02/25/russia-i...

And that people on the outside are helpful was proven in World War II were many germans fled.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, not all Russians are against this war, many people don't even know that there's war, because as of now even saying "Stop War" is punishable by 3 years in Prison, distributing non official information about the war is punishable by 15 years in prison. All free media is banned as of now, newspapers closed down so their journalists don't go to prison. As for protest, if you think there's a lot of military…

"As long as he controls the military protests can only do so much. " Most succesful revolutions happened, when the military joined the protests. The military is made up of common people after all. And it is hard to see through the fog of war from the distance - but my impression is, that the russian army fights very hesistant and with low morale and badly organized. And they are not welcomed as liberators. No matter…

That is solved by making this branch of military the most privileged and the best paid - basically make them addicts of the regime. This makes uprooting the status quo their existential threat.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you assume that? (See Euromaidan)

One possibility is that Yanukovich is more humane than putin or lukashenko. I don't know enough about him to compare but the last two are merciless dictators.

That's not a real possibility though, the only way Ukraine will be kept down will be with continuous threats. I personally don't think he will live an hour after he sets foot into Kyiv.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> West countries have similar laws Recent Russian law: 15 years imprisonment for protesting or even just calling the war a war. Western countries have nothing of that scale for such general offences. Neither in law nor in culture. The nearest things I can think of are holocaust or genocide denial laws, and protest-limiting powers. There are some similarities, but also very significant differences, so I think you are…

I posted two links in a neighbor thread, I'll repeat those here:

https://www.praguemorning.cz/expressing-support-for-russia-o...

https://spravy.rtvs.sk/2022/02/za-podporu-vojnovej-propagand...

Those are European countries.

I agree that probably state of freedom of speech is worse in Russia. I agree that political diversity is basically zero in Russia and all Putin opponents are either dead, imprisoned or gone from the country. That's a terrible state of things and it must be improved. Hopefully after Putin's rule, he's not eternal after all.

And if you think that everyone in Russia is going to jail for calling it war, you're wrong. Putin himself called it war. Plenty of people called it war. This is just fear mongering. And potential reason to put in jail some people if they crossed some line. At least I think so. Just as I hope that links above are fear mongering.

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