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Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

reuters.com

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Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#561

Post by numlock86 »

akvadrako wrote: post #542
ornornor wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a large dam It would be catastrophic but much more localized. Fallout from Chernobyl went around the world several times, poisoning most of the humans alive or being made at the time (not to mention the rest of the biomass)

Not at a dangerous level, say more than eating a banana. The dam breaks killed and hurt magnitudes more people.

> Fallout from Chernobyl went around the world several times, poisoning most of the humans alive or being made at the time [...]

> Not at a dangerous level, say more than eating a banana.

Born 1986 in Germany and I got a rare metabolism illness that only ~2000 more people have, all born around June/July/August in 1986 in Western and Middle Europe with some exceptions distributed around as late as born in September and October. But the Spring of 1986 was probably just a famous year for pregnant women eating exceptionally many bananas I guess?

At least I agree that dams killed more people than that specific event. But wait till you see the numbers for fossil fuels ...

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#562

Post by randomsearch »

revscat wrote: post #342
yabones wrote: post #314

This has been a real reckoning for me, as somebody who has historically been very pro-nuclear. Quite simply, humanity is too good at screwing things up to harness such a fundamentally powerful and dangerous source of power. It requires a commitment to long lasting peace and stability that we're just not capable of.

This touches on why I think humanity will not survive for much longer. Global warming continues to be a civilization-ending level threat, and yet it continues to be more or less ignored. Vast swathes of the population believe that their egos can determine reality, no matter the actual physical reality they so hubristically ignore. > we’re not capable of I don’t think so, either. This sentiment tends to be met by the…

Not saying you’re wrong, but espousing the idea that “humanity is too short sighted” is just as daft as saying “we are definitely going to colonise the universe”. It’s not particularly helpful, you’re reasoning more on emotion than fact (we’ve gotten this far) and most of all you’re talking as if this is something you or I cannot change. I think that’s why you get downvoted. I don’t think it’s an unreasonable opinion you hold, but it’s not a very constructive outlook. And HN is full of people who want to make things better, not sit on the sidelines pronouncing doom. If you see a problem, work to fix it. People can and do change the direction of humanity.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#563

Post by Robin_Message »

vkou wrote: post #313
dustintrex wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, as long as the tin pot dictator is attacking some country we don't really care about.

Bingo. Unfortunately NATO made it very clear to everyone over the past eight years that it's not going to spill blood over Ukraine. ... But now that the opportunity to trap Putin in a quagmire has presented itself, it does seem to be ready to flood the region with weapons. Had it done so at any point in the preceding eight years, war might well have been avoided. Which leads me to think that avoiding war was never th…

I think it's a bit of a catch-22: given one of Putin's stated aims is to demilitarise Ukraine and remove Western weapons, NATO arming Ukraine earlier would have caused Russia to invade earlier.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#564

Post by altacc »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #419
jliptzin wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t one major problem with nuclear is that it’s hard to shut down when you don’t need it? Hopefully they understand that

Russia most likely designed and built that reactor and the others in the country, back when it was part of the Soviet Union. I think it's safe to say they fully understand and are capable of operating nuclear reactors like it. edit: Construction started on it in 1980. This is a Soviet designed and built reactor. Russia should have no problem maintaining it.

It is highly unlikely there are be nuclear scientists with that knowledge amongst the armed forces currently invading Ukraine. The type of reactor may be known but each reactor and its instruments, controls and protocols will be unique in some way. The only people who are qualified to run this reactor safely are the staff who work there every day.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#565

Post by watwut »

theshrike79 wrote: post #492
TillE wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every country has its propaganda and lies, but they're generally couched in half-truths. It's truly remarkable how the Russian flavor of misinformation sounds just like a pathological liar making up wild bullshit that nobody could possibly take seriously. That's been a tradition for decades, as far as I know.

The Russian language has three words for lying, two for truth. And one of those (pravda) is a kind of a half-truth used to keep moving from the current situation. Russians know they are and have been lied to, but the culture is to keep going anyways, because that's how things have been done since forever.

Pravda means truth. Pravda was also name of state journal. The half-truth is said as half-pravda. English has many words for lie too: misinformation, lie, untruth, false, deceit, deception, dishonesty, disinformation, distortion, evasion, fabrication, falsehood, fiction, forgery, misrepresentation, perjury, slander, tale. I got them from synonyms dictionary.

That does not say anything about English speaking people other then their language is rich and can express nuance.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#566

Post by evan_ »

czep wrote: post #359
HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The risks of nuclear war from a NATO militarily intervention are far too high to even consider it. I’m sorry to say, but there is really nothing that could happen in Ukraine that would be bad enough for us to accept the risk of nuclear annihilation.

Bluff? Putin wants to live out his golden years in unabated luxury after anointing a loyal successor. If he nukes the entire world, he will live in squalor and misery while being hunted by the entire human race. He won't do it. Me hopes. Me also hopes someone in his inner circle gets a nice clean view of the back of his head and does the world a favor.

I mean you're right, but... he already lives in unimaginable luxury, wanting for nothing. Has for decades. Could continue to do so for 100 lifetimes. And yet here we are.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#567

Post by capitol_ »

hans_castorp wrote: post #498
waffleiron wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No he isn’t, then he’d be at war with at least 3 other nuclear powers. You know Poland is both EU and NATO right? He has a difficult time winning the war already, he’d never be able to win if he pulls in more countries.

In the meantime I fear he is indeed that crazy. He repeatedly stated that his goal is to wipe out Ukraine at any costs. He is a like a little child that doesn't get his way and then blindly hits at everything in his reach.

It is a political move to appear that crazy.

Russia is desperate to deter EU/USA from involving itself more in the war, and the only way it can do that is by treating to escalate to nuclear war.

But that threat is only effective if people actually think that you will do it, so they must play this so that they seem crazy enough to start a nuclear war.

It's a bit like someone blackmailing you for money for something illegal you did together, only way to get you to pay is to show that they are really willing to expose your secrets, even if they might be exposed also. And once you believe them and start paying they will continue to demand money from you.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#568

Post by eru »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #476
eru wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree 100%, but I don't think you deserve the downvotes. I think you could say in the wider scale it can be interpreted as an existential threat to Putin's Russia?

They are literally doing total war without provocation. The theoretical threat of NATO has not been a part of this conflict at all. Treating that imagined threat as if it’s equivalent to the very real war is navel gazing excuse for a mass murdering fascist.

First, yes, Putin's Russia has started a war of conquest.

Second, no, it is definitely _not_ a total war. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_war for background.

Third, the theoretical threat of NATO is not so much to Russia: I agree that NATO is not a threat to Russia. However I do also see that NATO and EU are a threat to Putin's long term vision for a renewed Russian Empire.

To be clear, I agree that this vision is bogus and that a threat to a bogus vision is not a valid excuse for a war.

Please also be careful with accusing people of being fascists or Nazis. Putin and his predecessors in the USSR employed the same tactic. And whether anyone does or does not fulfill the textbook definition of a fascist is besides the point here.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#569

Post by watwut »

akvadrako wrote: post #542
ornornor wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a large dam It would be catastrophic but much more localized. Fallout from Chernobyl went around the world several times, poisoning most of the humans alive or being made at the time (not to mention the rest of the biomass)

Not at a dangerous level, say more than eating a banana. The dam breaks killed and hurt magnitudes more people.

A single dam break did not killed and hurt magnitudes more people then singly Chernobyl.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#570

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

TillE wrote: post #368
sidibe wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't surprise me if they believe that considering the ridiculous stream of fantasy being spewed out of Russian leader and media.

Every country has its propaganda and lies, but they're generally couched in half-truths. It's truly remarkable how the Russian flavor of misinformation sounds just like a pathological liar making up wild bullshit that nobody could possibly take seriously. That's been a tradition for decades, as far as I know.

This is a deliberate part of KGB style propaganda. It's not designed to convince people of any specific lie, but rather so muddle things that people become cynical about knowing the truth period. There's a book on the topic where the title kinda tells the whole story: "Nothing is True and Everything is Possible"
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