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Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

reuters.com

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Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#351

Post by Johnny555 »

tenpies wrote: post #335
belval wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All headlines are about Russians shelling a nuclear plant. You can say that's fake news, but at least provide a shred of evidence (like any article?). > KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Russian forces pressed their attack on a crucial energy-producing Ukrainian city by shelling Europe’s largest nuclear plant early Friday, sparking a fire and raising fears that radiation could leak from the damaged power station. https://apnews.c…

I think the best stance is what we should all know by now: Ukraine is highly propagandistic because their victory scenario involves getting NATO directly involved and escalating a regional conflict into a World War. So let's treat any information coming out from them as such and wait 1 day for more accurate accounts to come in.

To be fair, I'm certain that the Ukraine does not want to spark a world war, but they certainly would appreciate some direct support from NATO, even just air support. (which is likely to lead to a world war, but that's not Ukraine's intention, they are just trying to preserve their country).

Despite any inaccuracies due to the "fog of war" or even propaganda, the basic facts of this unprovoked invasion are more than enough to justify NATO intervention.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#352

Post by cmrdporcupine »

yabones wrote: post #314

This has been a real reckoning for me, as somebody who has historically been very pro-nuclear. Quite simply, humanity is too good at screwing things up to harness such a fundamentally powerful and dangerous source of power. It requires a commitment to long lasting peace and stability that we're just not capable of.

This has always been my fear about nuclear. We don't think on the timescales to make it work well, nor with the engineering consistency and quality to keep it maintained.

However, abandoned oil refineries and other chemical plants are also toxic nasty messes for potentially hundreds of years, too.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#353

Post by veganhouseDJ »

21723 wrote: post #269
HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #135

Allegedly, Ukrainian firefighters were shot at by Russian troops. If true, then that’s another war crime to add to the growing list.

Indeed, which is fucking terrifying. You don't do war crimes unless you expect to get away with it, which means either you're fighting a war that more powerful nations don't care about, or you expect to win it. Putin can't win against NATO but he can make both sides lose. I used to think he was rational and only minorly evil, but now I'm not so sure of the rationality... and clearly he's more than minorly evil.

IMO you have to consider there is an information war going on so to me the only rational thing to do is take everything you think you know with a grain of salt.

There probably is a tactical advantage from the Russian side to putting out the idea that Putin has gone crazy.

Or he really has gone crazy. We can't really know but the fog of war spreading to social media does not seem like a great development.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#354

Post by marcosdumay »

nl wrote: post #66
shadowgovt wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not. Reactors generally can't melt down the way Chernobyl did anymore. The most significant risk is a breach of the reactor chamber fragmenting the fuel rofs and spreading radioactive particles around, or a hit to the spent fuel stores doing the same. Neither are good, but they wouldn't be nearly as bad as Chernobyl or a nuclear weapon strike.

> Reactors generally can't melt down the way Chernobyl did anymore. a) "the way Chernobyl did" is technically correct (the VVER reactor that Zaporizhzhia is uses a difference containment strategy), but a distinction without meaning - a meltdown is a meltdown. b) "anymore" - Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant was built between 1980 and 1996. It's true that it is a safer design than Chernobyl, but yes it absolutely can still m…

> a meltdown is a meltdown

I'd say that how much radioactive waste gets expelled or leaked and how much energy goes into it makes all the difference in the world and each meltdown is probably unique.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#355

Post by Johnny555 »

21723 wrote: post #269
HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #135

Allegedly, Ukrainian firefighters were shot at by Russian troops. If true, then that’s another war crime to add to the growing list.

Indeed, which is fucking terrifying. You don't do war crimes unless you expect to get away with it, which means either you're fighting a war that more powerful nations don't care about, or you expect to win it. Putin can't win against NATO but he can make both sides lose. I used to think he was rational and only minorly evil, but now I'm not so sure of the rationality... and clearly he's more than minorly evil.

You don't do war crimes unless you expect to get away with it, which means either you're fighting a war that more powerful nations don't care about, or you expect to win it.

I think it's the later - Putin is not going to lose this war since he's racking up hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars of damage and compensation for injury/death that Russia would have a hard time paying for if he admits defeat.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#356

Post by dragonwriter »

galangalalgol wrote: post #346
Zandikar wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://twitter.com/AlexandruC4/status/1499546302786510853 more recent firing, from about 15minutes ago as well.

someone elsewhere in this thread wrote that bombing a nuclear plant was considered a war crime, if this is on video, will it likely be used in the current UN investigation of Russian war crimes?

It will almost certainly be a subject of the current International Criminal Court investigation, I would think.

But, there is no shortage of work for that investigation.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#358

Post by colechristensen »

21723 wrote: post #269
HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #135

Allegedly, Ukrainian firefighters were shot at by Russian troops. If true, then that’s another war crime to add to the growing list.

Indeed, which is fucking terrifying. You don't do war crimes unless you expect to get away with it, which means either you're fighting a war that more powerful nations don't care about, or you expect to win it. Putin can't win against NATO but he can make both sides lose. I used to think he was rational and only minorly evil, but now I'm not so sure of the rationality... and clearly he's more than minorly evil.

He is likely “rational” but so out of touch after so many years with the actual world that he can only reason about the distortion bubble that gets built up around people with so much power, wealth, and political influence.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#359

Post by czep »

HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #148
Thaxll wrote: post #131

One can wonder what does it takes for the west to military intervene. Sanctions are a long term plan but it won't save Ukraine.

The risks of nuclear war from a NATO militarily intervention are far too high to even consider it. I’m sorry to say, but there is really nothing that could happen in Ukraine that would be bad enough for us to accept the risk of nuclear annihilation.

Bluff? Putin wants to live out his golden years in unabated luxury after anointing a loyal successor. If he nukes the entire world, he will live in squalor and misery while being hunted by the entire human race. He won't do it. Me hopes. Me also hopes someone in his inner circle gets a nice clean view of the back of his head and does the world a favor.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#360

Post by MilnerRoute »

Washington Post: “The United Nations’ nuclear watchdog soon said the blaze had not affected ‘essential’ equipment and that Ukraine’s regulator reported no change in surrounding radiation levels.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/03/nuclear-powe...

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