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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#921

Post by CRConrad »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #780
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we followed these principles, the world would be much happier and peaceful place. But countries like Russia would be free to invade Ukraine and others because of the "don't interfere" and "don't take a side" policy. It's like the "I did nothing" poem. NATO was founded to try and prevent another country from building an empire like Germany tried in WW2, because at the time it was like that poem, first they came.…

> But countries like Russia would be free to invade Ukraine and others because of the "don't interfere" and "don't take a side" policy. The "don't interfere" policy would also apply to Russia. And if they still try, the others would be responsible not to let them interfere. In the same way as others would need to stop China, USA, and Zimbabwe when they attempt to interfere with another sovereign state on the lesser l…

> The "don't interfere" policy would also apply to Russia.

Yeah, good luck with that.

> And if they still try, the others would be responsible not to let them interfere.

Yup. That's why Ukraine should have been let into NATO long ago.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#922

Post by CRConrad »

codebolt wrote: post #712
c-c-c-c-c wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do that when you can make sure to undermine their trust in you :)

Are you guys even parents? Because you sure make yourselves sound like experts. The truth is I know my kids will make absolutely terrible choices if I leave everything up to them. I myself made a lot of bad choices growing up with unsupervised internet access. And on todays web it seems the pitfalls for a curious young person are even deeper and more plentiful. I'm simply trying to spare my kids some of the same prob…

> The truth is I know my kids will make absolutely terrible choices if I leave everything up to them.

Yeah, so what? How the fuck else are they supposed to grow up?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#923

Post by randomsearch »

aa-jv wrote: post #449
randomsearch wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, intervention in Yugoslavia wasn’t a war started by the US. The Kuwait war was after an invasion by Iraq and at the invitation of the government there, and the US were restrained enough to halt at the Iraq border. The Syrian war was not started by the US, and it has played a minor part there. In fact, it is Russia that has indiscriminately bombed Syrian cities and targeted civilians and hospitals there. Afghanis…

Yemen?

I didn’t cover Yemen, because I am not as familiar with the details of the conflict, and from what I do know it seems to be a very complex situation involving many actors.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#924

Post by ev0lv »

jarek83 wrote: post #821

It's so bad for Russian people and companies. We generally should not give any advice to them since their rescued incomes pour money into killings of Ukraine civilians. I hope you guys could cut off from the devastating powers in your country in some way.

>>We generally should not give any advice to them

I disagree completely. Putin's decisions aren't the decisions of everyday Russians. And the Ukranian conflict is more complicated than the single-side narratives you are fed. Giving people advice is the morally right thing to do.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#925

Post by CRConrad »

Yoric wrote: post #484
jd115 wrote: post #259

Here's my take on this, which you are not going to like one bit. It goes like this... The good people of Russia - and I'm not saying this with a tongue in cheek - the vast majority of the people of Russia truly are GOOD people, in the simplest, most sincere sense of the word... But they do need to go through some things. You just don't get to support a murderous communist regime for 100 years and then say "but we had…

Oh, please, let's not start blaming most Russians. These sanctions are about ruining the Russian war machine, as well as demonstrating to other authoritarian governments tempted by imperialism that attacking democracies is a bad idea. Individual Russians (with the exception of oligarchs) are collateral damage. And despite the fact that Russians are (probably) going to suffer deeply for it, it's (probably) the right w…

> Oh, please, let's not start blaming most Russians.

Any regime can only stay in power as long as it has the support, active or passive, of a majority of its people. (That's why the German people was held collectively responsible for having abided the Nazi regime, and had to go through collective de-Nazification after WW2.) The fact that, with the exception of short periods of anarchy (most recently: the 1990s), Russia has had authoritarian-to-dictatorial regimes since... Well, since about forever, means that the Russian people has been condoning authoritarian-to-dictatorial regimes since about forever.

High time for a change in that, isn't it? And whom should that be up to... If not the Russian people?

> if Russians somehow manage to reinstate democracy in their country

I think you mean instate democracy, without the re-.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#926

Post by CRConrad »

jd115 wrote: post #353
thablackbull wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You just don't get to support a murderous communist regime for 100 years and then say "but we had nothing to do with it". If that argument holds (which I'm not saying it doesn't), then how much more responsible are we who have democracy and tell everyone else how great it is we have a say in how our government operates. Surely, we then hold even more of the blame on issues such as the WMD fiasco. Ironically, ask an…

Good point. Well worth thinking about.

No, it's stupid whataboutism.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#927

Post by leereeves »

markus_zhang wrote: post #896
caeril wrote: post #881

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not really allowed to mention this, nor are you allowed to note that the current Ukraine government is an illegitimate installation by FVEY IC in 2014, after the democratically elected one was overthrown. Also best not to point out that very large contingents of the defenders are actual literal Nazis. Our marching orders from our media betters are to uncritically root for Ukraine, so that's what we'll do.

Can you provide proof about the Nazi claim?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-...

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#928

Post by CRConrad »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #561
jd115 wrote: post #259

Here's my take on this, which you are not going to like one bit. It goes like this... The good people of Russia - and I'm not saying this with a tongue in cheek - the vast majority of the people of Russia truly are GOOD people, in the simplest, most sincere sense of the word... But they do need to go through some things. You just don't get to support a murderous communist regime for 100 years and then say "but we had…

Who says they supported it? What can "the people" do if elections are fraudulent, constitutions are changed, and any protests are beaten down by police? How many people have been arrested and disappeared for protesting against the invasion? I mean, even in the US protesters managed to break into Congress, some with the intent to kill. If they were armed things would look very different now. What would have happened i…

> What can "the people" do if elections are fraudulent, constitutions are changed, and any protests are beaten down by police?

Oh, I don't know... Wait, ever heard of something called a revolution?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#929

Post by CRConrad »

cracrecry wrote: post #509
jd115 wrote: post #259

Here's my take on this, which you are not going to like one bit. It goes like this... The good people of Russia - and I'm not saying this with a tongue in cheek - the vast majority of the people of Russia truly are GOOD people, in the simplest, most sincere sense of the word... But they do need to go through some things. You just don't get to support a murderous communist regime for 100 years and then say "but we had…

You should learn History before you talk. There was a civil war in Russia. The Bolshevism won being a minority because they got support from Germany Government in a critical weakness situation of World War. I bet you can't even understand that from a privileged position on the West, fell fed and well rested. I have been in Africa helping kids that eat once a day and they are so weak they can't think clearly for long.…

And who condoned that all; who actually put Lenin in power (and spare us the "Germany Government" crap), and then did not put neither him nor his equally-or-more dictatorial successors out of it again after they noticed that the results were shit?

The Russian people, that's who. Any regime that is tolerated by its people is always and everywhere the responsibility of that people. Whose the Hell else could it even be?!?

And this is so fucking self-evident that even trying to argue against it seems a surefire sign of advanced lunacy.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#930

Post by CRConrad »

beebeepka wrote: post #660
daminimal wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A response late is better than no response. I believe what you are saying is that if some countries were destroyed, others should be as well? Europe protects itself as it considers Ukraine a part of Europe, that's not racist, that's pragmatist.

Don't want any country to be destroyed. Isn't that a given? Can't we discuss realities in a more open way without the low hanging strawman arguments?

> without the low hanging strawman arguments?

Like yours, you mean? Yes, please try.

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