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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#631

Post by hugojaba »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #463
simonh wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either you believe in democracy, or you do not. If the Ukrainian people want to join the EU or NATO, and our people want them to join us as well, they have the right to make that choice as free sovereign people, and we should back them up. Any other response is itself subjugation, and capitulation to terror.

Quoted post unavailable.

Russia and NATO together doesn't make sense to me. Who would they defend against? What common threats do they have?

NATO is made to promote democratic values, Putin runs a dictatorship, how does that work?

In a world where Russia also sought to promote free democracies and started with itself, then Russia being in NATO would make sense.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#632

Post by yazaddaruvala »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #561
jd115 wrote: post #259

Here's my take on this, which you are not going to like one bit. It goes like this... The good people of Russia - and I'm not saying this with a tongue in cheek - the vast majority of the people of Russia truly are GOOD people, in the simplest, most sincere sense of the word... But they do need to go through some things. You just don't get to support a murderous communist regime for 100 years and then say "but we had…

Who says they supported it? What can "the people" do if elections are fraudulent, constitutions are changed, and any protests are beaten down by police? How many people have been arrested and disappeared for protesting against the invasion? I mean, even in the US protesters managed to break into Congress, some with the intent to kill. If they were armed things would look very different now. What would have happened i…

“No country was born a democracy”

The Russian people really can impact change in their country and now is the best time. They just need to find a way to be united about stopping Putin.

Many more Russians will likely die, but sadly that’s always been the cost of building a democracy. I would have much rather preferred a world that wasn’t so brutal to achieve something so critical.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#633

Post by the_duke »

daminimal wrote: post #330
godmode2019 wrote: post #155

I think its very sad normal Russian people are going to be targeted when European countries are still buying oil and gas from Russia 700million a day going straight to the war machine. Europeans pretend to care and sanction everything except for the oil and gas that is funding that war. There should always be a difference between government and people. All these sanctions are harming normal people, essentially econom…

The reason these sanctions are harming normal people is that Europe is driving for a change in Russia that will never happen unless the people blame its own government for the situation.

It's absolutely possible, it would just come with an enormous impact on citizens and the economy.

The result would be exploding prices, shortages and rationing of gas, potentially even power cuts at night or reduced availability of power to industry.

But the EU countries could absolutely do it if they really wanted to.

But this is also a big escalation.

Energy exports are the lifeline of the Russian economy. Canada just banned crude oil imports from Russia yesterday. Without a delay Russia just stopped diplomatic relations with the country and withdrew all diplomats.

It's basically a declaration of war to them, because if it spreads and even countries like China theoretically were forced to join in, they would really collapse.

And if Russia is pushed I to a corner there's no telling what they might do.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#634

Post by Zvez »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #463
simonh wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either you believe in democracy, or you do not. If the Ukrainian people want to join the EU or NATO, and our people want them to join us as well, they have the right to make that choice as free sovereign people, and we should back them up. Any other response is itself subjugation, and capitulation to terror.

Quoted post unavailable.

WAT? Do you have any proofs with real appliance to NATO from Russia? I don't remember that, apart from some usual russian rhetorics how they ask USA (for some reason) to allow them into the NATO and for some reason USA (not nato) didn't answer them.

But ok, lets imaging you are right. So you are saying that, it is NATO fault that Russian invades Ukraine simply because they didn't take Russia into NATO? Right?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#635

Post by 5ESS »

fer wrote: post #593
5ESS wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RT isn’t a western media organization. I would be shocked if you could find just one actual major mainstream western media organization that tells the other side of the story.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/02/23/tucker-carls... Here, shock yourself.

Irrelevant and not even remotely close to what I asked for. This is a story about Tucker Carlson sympathizing with Putin.

It is not a story explaining the reason why Russia felt it was necessary to conduct special military action in the Ukraine. It does not explain why Russia believes they are helping to liberate the DPR and LPR from nationalists and return the borders of the republics.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#637

Post by dragonwriter »

rightbyte wrote: post #591
dukoid wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people also did not care about Georgia. So while cultural proximity is certainly a factor, geographical proximity seems to be a significant factor, too. I don't think Sreberenica is forgotten or was ignored in Europe. The West seems to be slow to wake up -- and Putin got high on his sequence of "successful" wars. I don't want to deny that hypocrisy exists here, but it doesn't justify Putins crimes anywhere.

This is way worse than Georgia, Krim and Chechnya combined. Ukraine is a big country with a big army. The stakes Russia are putting in are big and shows the commitment with the pretense of being cornered. It is a full invasion. Also the NATO and EU military support in what Russia sees as their business is escalating the risks. This is probably two magnitudes worse concerning the risk for further spread.

The size of the target country is somewhat less significant to me than the explicit justification for the war involving invocation of a set of translations and transpositions of the whole set of Nazi expansionist arguments (lebensraum, Volksgemeinschaft, and Blut and Boden), with a twist on the Dolchstoßlegende mixed in.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#638

Post by usrusr »

Ambolia wrote: post #389
jdrc wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is becoming a theme with immigrant communities, in a similar vein how german Turks are supportive of Erdogan. I'm sure those people are not evil, but this phenomenon is worthy of investigation.

People migrate for economic reasons, not because they want to replace their own brain with the brain of the destination country people. The US was was relatively good at integrating migrants into a certain idea of america, but that's not the norm around the world, and I don't think that vision of america exists anymore. Maybe in the upper-middle class, but certainly gone in the lower classes.

All the flag-raising and anthem-singing in US schools surely serves a purpose. We tried to avoid replicating that in Germany, for very good reasons, but now we have "third generation immigrants".

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#639

Post by c-c-c-c-c »

wwilim wrote: post #414
codebolt wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very helpful to control their apps and give them a daily screen time allowance (1 hour on weekdays, 2 hours in weekend). I don't like the idea of my 11 year old spending days and nights on e.g. TikTok, not to mention browsing for porn. Also useful to have the ability to see where they are, although I don't use this feature too much.

or you could just talk to your kids about it, spend time with them and help them find something more worthwhile to do

Why do that when you can make sure to undermine their trust in you :)

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#640

Post by dash2 »

sdevonoes wrote: post #587
koonsolo wrote: post #511

I have a different message: Go on the street and take control of your country, before you turn into another North Korea. Ukrainians were able to overthrow their government, and so can you.

> Go on the street and take control of your country, before you turn into another North Korea. So, you are saying that one should risk their life for their country? No, thank you. I never understood this kind of "patriotism".

You may not understand it, but no country has ever become or stayed free without it.
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