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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#381

Post by darebak »

democracy wrote: post #354
darebak wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly yes. That's certainly why the Russian narrative won in Russia and Belarus. Propaganda/media is one of the most useful ways to steer a population, it even doesn't have to be particularly good propaganda if its voluminous and exclusive.

>> Mostly yes. That's certainly why the Russian narrative won in Russia and Belarus. There is no more Belarus as a country. It is Russian puppet state with an appointed governor Lukashenko. Occupied by the Russian army at the moment. Those who were against are either in prisons or fled the country. The country is North Korea basically at the moment. Most of the people (~60%) hate Lukashenko and Putin.

There most certainly is a country of Belarus, just like there's the country of North Korea.

And 60% is not that much to be honest.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#382

Post by drran »

dumdumdumdum wrote: post #157
alangibson wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give it up. Azov Battalion is explicitly neo-Nazi. It's also about about 1500 people. If you're going to engage in whataboutism over the wholesale invasion of a country, you've gonna have to do better than that. That said, there's no justification for the Nazi crap.

Come up with a new word. Not everything is 'whataboutism'. But more to the point, if it's such a small force why is part of the National Guard of Ukraine. Disband it and send the members suspected of war crimes to stand trial at The Hague. I'm sure a nation looking to join the EU would have no problems doing that. edit: Also something that's bothering me...what do you mean they are "explicitly neo-Nazi"? Is that some…

> what do you mean they are "explicitly neo-Nazi"?

Just looks at their crimes at Wikipedia:

> On 11 August, Azov battalion, backed by Ukrainian paratroopers, captured Marinka from pro-Russian rebels and entered the suburbs of Donetsk clashing with Donetsk People's Republic fighters.

They're killing Russians.

> In early September 2014, the Azov battalion was engaged in the Second Battle of Mariupol. Regarding the ceasefire agreed on 5 September, Biletskiy stated: "If it was a tactical move there is nothing wrong with it ... if it's an attempt to reach an agreement concerning Ukrainian soil with separatists then obviously it's a betrayal."

They don't believe Russians.

> As of late March 2015, despite a second ceasefire agreement (Minsk II), the Azov Battalion continued to prepare for war, with the group's leader seeing the ceasefire as "appeasement".

They don't believe Russians.

> In March 2015 Interior Minister Arsen Avakov announced that the Azov Regiment would be among the first units to be trained by United States Army troops in their Operation Fearless Guardian training mission.

They cooperate with US.

> According to Minsk Ceasefire Agreements, foreign fighters are not allowed to serve in Ukraine's military. Despite the Minsk Ceasefire Agreements, the regiment still has foreign fighters, including an ex-British army serviceman Chris Garrett and a 33-year-old former soldier of the Greek army and French Foreign Legion known by the nom-de-guerre of "The Greek".

They allow British and French to kill Russians.

And so on.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#383

Post by nl »

pydry wrote: post #282
ogogmad wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think that talking to Hitler is going to stop a war?

Saying "Ukraine will remain neutral and will not join NATO" would have stopped this war. It's an unpopular fact but it's still true.

Ukraine hadn't even applied to join NATO.

There's a big difference between Ukraine saying it won't join (that's up to them) and NATO acknowledging Russia "sphere of influence" arguments by preventivly saying they won't be allowed to.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#384

Post by jopsen »

gnull wrote: post #11

As a side question, how similar is Putin's war in Ukraine to the numerous wars started by U.S. (say, in the middle East, Yugoslavia)? Are these fair to compare? I'm trying to understand the scale of Putin's decision, not to justify it or engage in whataboutism.

The US never said: "it's just an exercise, we have no plans to invade".

Not lying means that diplomacy has a chance.

Nor does the US act unilaterally. It's always a coalition.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#385

Post by prox »

dimator wrote: post #338
teekert wrote: post #180

This whole situation is so surreal and disappointing. I grew up on Star Trek and somehow I just though we had (almost) arrived in a post-war, federation-like world. We know things should be solved with words because otherwise there are only losers. It’s how we raise our kids. I just keep thinking about how Jean Luc is looking down on us from orbit, slowly shaking his head whispering “Savages.”

I watched TNG in high school. I never realized how much of my worldview it helped form, until I reflected on it later on. Because of that, humanity has really disappointed me. I thought we were on track, but it's just so stark of a reality check. Despite all our progress, our greed and petty squabbling make me feel like the future that star trek pointed us towards is slipping further into the future. I'm sure now tha…

“We think we’ve come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, is all ancient history. Then, before you can blink an eye, suddenly, it threatens to start all over again.” - Picard (The Drumhead)

“A matter of internal security: the age-old cry of the oppressor.” - Picard (The Hunter)

“The past is written, but the future is left for us to write. And we have powerful tools, openness, optimism, and the spirit of curiosity. All they have is secrecy and fear. And fear is the great destroyer.” - Picard (Broken Pieces)

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#386

Post by teekert »

ihateolives wrote: post #294
teekert wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I realize it is perhaps hypocritical, but somehow I thought we had figured it out. I mean we (EU and US) also could have done more talking less warmongering. I’m also disappointed with our leaders.

You do realize that only thing EU and US have done about Russia escalating situations all over the place (Crimea, North Caucasus, Georgia, South Ossetia, Chechnya, Dagestan etc) is talk, talk, talk. Has it helped? Nope. Russia seems to be immune to talking.

We talked, but what concessions did we make?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#388

Post by khyryk »

5ESS wrote: post #185
diiiimaaaa wrote: post #165

I am in Ukraine right now. In a small village to the north of Kyiv. I am the author of PhotoSwipe ( https://github.com/dimsemenov/photoswipe ). Yesterday I was filling bags with sand to make a fortification for local defenders. I hear artillery as I am writing this. And by the way, you get used to it. In the last few days I received about 20 emails offering support, none of them were from russian devs. One asked a te…

How are sanctions going to make anybody more informed? They dont…That makes no sense. Instead of sanctions, a more effective strategy would be to provide Russians with free VPNs so that they can access western news media.

Russia has been running Goebbels-levels of propaganda to counteract whatever benefit came from access to western media. How much progress has been made since 2014?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#389

Post by Ambolia »

jdrc wrote: post #235
anovikov wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian here. This is not misinformation or anything. This is just because yes, vast majority of Russians from all walks of life are pure evil. Even those living in the Western countries for decades. I have deleted myself from all social networks 5 years ago and people keep sending me screenshots from Russian facebook groups in Cyprus and that makes me freak out. Nearly everyone is pro-Putin. Ridiculous posts get hun…

this is becoming a theme with immigrant communities, in a similar vein how german Turks are supportive of Erdogan. I'm sure those people are not evil, but this phenomenon is worthy of investigation.

People migrate for economic reasons, not because they want to replace their own brain with the brain of the destination country people.

The US was was relatively good at integrating migrants into a certain idea of america, but that's not the norm around the world, and I don't think that vision of america exists anymore. Maybe in the upper-middle class, but certainly gone in the lower classes.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#390

Post by xorfish »

darebak wrote: post #97
watwut wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not how quite a few Polish, Slovak and so on people see it. Slovak president said literally that too. There is nothing absolutely nothing to suggest Russia is interested only in Ukraine in the long term. They will stop only if they have to. Putin arguments about Russian history points toward expansion. Putin arguments about being entitled to Ukraine due to them being forced into USSR or Ukraine not being real…

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Russia is interested in anything other than Ukraine. Everything else is just fear mongering, atleast Slovak media does that well.

Except the explicit words of the dictator of Russia.

There is nothing to contradict the view, that Putin doesn't want to restore the old Tsar or Soviet borders.

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