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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#601

Post by rob74 »

squarefoot wrote: post #302
kungito wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been multiple active wars in like 1/4 of the world the whole time since ww2 and all the time before that. The only thing different is that Ukraine is closer to EU than the rest of the countries.

Chechnya war also was very close and nobody cared since they were mostly Islamic, and the war in the former Yugoslavia happened just in the middle of Europe, but apparently many have already lost memory of it despite the atrocities committed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre

The difference is that Russia invading Ukraine is a clear-cut war between two independent states. Chechnya was/is a part of Russia, so the situation is the same as in China with Xinjiang and Tibet. And Yugoslavia was a complicated and bloody break-up of a federal republic (followed by the even more complicated and bloody break-up of Bosnia and the breaking away of Kosovo from Serbia). But the Russia-Ukraine war brings back memories of Hitler invading Poland, where the Germans also claimed to be acting in "self-defense" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Poland#German_inva...).

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#602

Post by aiProgMach »

roca wrote: post #536
aiProgMach wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even when you're admitting that "US did a lot of warmongering in the middle east" you want to give them some excuses, "I get that they wanted to retaliate after 9/11" you say? "retaliate" you say. Against whom exactly? How the (oppressed) Iraqi people or even Saddam Hussein has to do anything with the 9/11? Do I really need to remind you that Saddam was US ally? or that Qaeda was the US ally in the "freedom" war agai…

He was a US ally in the 80s. Later he wasn't.

I never said he was US ally during 2003! The point is, Saddam was the same during 80s and 90s the difference is that during 80's he was doing well against the enemies of the US (aka the CAPITAL of the free world).

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#603

Post by ceilingcorner »

adriancr wrote: post #515
ceilingcorner wrote: post #480

Seems like this barrage of sanctions and anti-Russian sentiment will do nothing but push Russia further toward China. I really don’t see the West removing them easily, even if Russia withdrew immediately. No one seems to care about arriving at a solution that will minimize bloodshed. Instead the media is more reminiscent of 1984 and drumming up a war against Eurasia than of rational realpolitik. This is the true birt…

> Seems like this barrage of sanctions and anti-Russian sentiment will do nothing but push Russia further toward China. It seems like it's doing massive damage to the Russian Economy. They can go towards China but that won't help much, plus China has ambitions of its own so it may end up de facto a vassal of China if it's not careful... > No one seems to care about arriving at a solution that will minimize bloodshed.…

If the sanctions didn’t work before, I don’t know why they would work now.

I don’t have the answers, but certainly any move toward more militarization of the world is usually a bad thing.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#604

Post by wadim »

a_petukhov wrote: post #558

Quoted post unavailable.

It's not a civil war, it's a war started by Russia 8 years ago. It's a war Russian military has been leading and participating in from the very beginning. This was sufficiently documented in the past, don't repeat Kremlin talking points.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#605

Post by [deleted] »

jdrc wrote: post #583
sakopov wrote: post #472

The reason Russia has elevated tyrants to power for centuries is deep-rooted in Russian soul to the point where it's not even a problem. It's something that is inexplicably difficult to understand unless you actually experience the culture for a good portion of your life. There is a lot of literature out there about the "Russian Soul" and I really recommend reading it to understand how this happens. In my opinion it'…

> Russia has elevated tyrants to power for centuries is deep-rooted in Russian soul to the point where it's not even a problem That's racist thinking, as bad as Putin's assertion that russia deserves some kind of tribute by the international community by force. The world advances as a Markov process, the past is not an indicator for the future.

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#606

Post by HstryrsrBttn »

JGM_io wrote: post #549
pydry wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "Ukraine will remain neutral and will not join NATO" would have stopped this war. It's an unpopular fact but it's still true.

Also nato not expanding towards russian borders even after promising it wouldn't by james baker, 1990[1] [1] https://ibb.co/xgqRWG3

No post body was provided.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#607

Post by dash2 »

5ESS wrote: post #521
dash2 wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is completely untrue. Until a few days ago, RT was openly available throughout Europe. As far as I know, it is still available in America, which protects freedom of speech in its constitution.

RT isn’t a western media organization. I would be shocked if you could find just one actual major mainstream western media organization that tells the other side of the story.

The Russian state can literally broadcast its own propaganda channel. What more do you want?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#608

Post by d0mine »

sakopov wrote: post #472

The reason Russia has elevated tyrants to power for centuries is deep-rooted in Russian soul to the point where it's not even a problem. It's something that is inexplicably difficult to understand unless you actually experience the culture for a good portion of your life. There is a lot of literature out there about the "Russian Soul" and I really recommend reading it to understand how this happens. In my opinion it'…

This reminds how europeans justified slavery: "they are barbarians. We are making them a favor by owning them. We give them civilization"

btw, russians are officially considered colored in US as I understand.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#609

Post by alangibson »

jdrc wrote: post #583
sakopov wrote: post #472

The reason Russia has elevated tyrants to power for centuries is deep-rooted in Russian soul to the point where it's not even a problem. It's something that is inexplicably difficult to understand unless you actually experience the culture for a good portion of your life. There is a lot of literature out there about the "Russian Soul" and I really recommend reading it to understand how this happens. In my opinion it'…

> Russia has elevated tyrants to power for centuries is deep-rooted in Russian soul to the point where it's not even a problem That's racist thinking, as bad as Putin's assertion that russia deserves some kind of tribute by the international community by force. The world advances as a Markov process, the past is not an indicator for the future.

> past is not an indicator for the future.

It doesn't _determine_ the future, but it sure sets the direction. Probabilities of all future possible states are not equal. The chances of the next president of the US being a Republican or Democrat are much higher than them being a card-carrying Communist.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#610

Post by throwawayffffas »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #502
modernpink wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Russophobia that has been pouring out is lamentable. And people don't realise this will only push the Russian people further towards Putin to re-establish their pride. And the sanctions are making this even worse. This mirrors Germany's treatment with the Treaty of Versailles leading up to WWII.

It is really distressing, not only because it’s ethically wrong to blame groups of people for individual actions, but also because it’s pragmatically against the interests of the West. We gain nothing by escalating this.

Pragmatically I am pretty sure the western logic goes like this. Sanctions will cause economic damage which will lead to misery which will lead to unrest and finally the toppling of the regime. This worked in the 20th century but took like 50 years, and as we can see now the resulting regime is not much better for the west, but I don't think there are any better options. The other approach see China is also slowly blowing up in our collective face, not that it would be an option now.
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