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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#581

Post by lifty »

hnov wrote: post #438
staskus wrote: post #345

As a person living in the Baltics, I agree with Western countries using their leverage (including big tech) to put as much pressure as possiblee on Russia. We’ve been sincerely holding back and crafting sanctions that would only affect Putin’s inner circle for the last 8 years but it didn’t work. Now that the ordinary Ukrainians need to withstand the horrors of the actual war, ordinary Russians need to withstand stro…

Maybe as a person living in the Baltics you need to endure the cold and not fund the Russian war machine through natural gas. An unfortunate reality really

While this comment seems overly cynical, the fact that Europe depends to such a large degree on Russia for its energy needs is a big failure. Now that the cards are on the table we (as Europeans) need to take some hard decisions and face the consequences of our own complacency. Energy security and defence capabilities should be fully self reliant.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#582

Post by roca »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #436
teekert wrote: post #180

This whole situation is so surreal and disappointing. I grew up on Star Trek and somehow I just though we had (almost) arrived in a post-war, federation-like world. We know things should be solved with words because otherwise there are only losers. It’s how we raise our kids. I just keep thinking about how Jean Luc is looking down on us from orbit, slowly shaking his head whispering “Savages.”

Star Trek fleet had actually excellent policies: - "any contact to less developed civilizations is strictly forbidden". - "do not interfere in any way and don't take a side in conflicts of sovereign civilizations". Both of them were crucial. If we followed these principles, the world would be much happier and peaceful place. What do we do instead? Bomb democracy into societies not yet ready for it, force trade agreem…

If Starfleet's policy is to simply stand aside and watch while one civilization genocides another, I'm not a fan.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#583

Post by jdrc »

sakopov wrote: post #472

The reason Russia has elevated tyrants to power for centuries is deep-rooted in Russian soul to the point where it's not even a problem. It's something that is inexplicably difficult to understand unless you actually experience the culture for a good portion of your life. There is a lot of literature out there about the "Russian Soul" and I really recommend reading it to understand how this happens. In my opinion it'…

> Russia has elevated tyrants to power for centuries is deep-rooted in Russian soul to the point where it's not even a problem

That's racist thinking, as bad as Putin's assertion that russia deserves some kind of tribute by the international community by force. The world advances as a Markov process, the past is not an indicator for the future.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#585

Post by fer »

5ESS wrote: post #430
khyryk wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia has been running Goebbels-levels of propaganda to counteract whatever benefit came from access to western media. How much progress has been made since 2014?

Quoted post unavailable.

> How do we know it’s propaganda?

If your country is always right and the rest are always wrong, that could be a hint. In Western media you'll find voices for and against the war. In Russian media it's barely acknowledged that there's a war ongoing.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#586

Post by alangibson »

sakopov wrote: post #472

The reason Russia has elevated tyrants to power for centuries is deep-rooted in Russian soul to the point where it's not even a problem. It's something that is inexplicably difficult to understand unless you actually experience the culture for a good portion of your life. There is a lot of literature out there about the "Russian Soul" and I really recommend reading it to understand how this happens. In my opinion it'…

Essentialist arguments about the 'soul' of a people are generally tissue thin and fall apart on examination.

That said, history is real. It has real effects on people, both through what stories they tell about themselves as a people and through the social superstructure that builds up over time.

And boy does Russia have a bleak history. What you call a 'Russian soul' is more like the internalized cultural wear-and-tear of a rough few hundred years. The good news is that it can be changed with long term concerted effort.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#587

Post by sdevonoes »

koonsolo wrote: post #511

I have a different message: Go on the street and take control of your country, before you turn into another North Korea. Ukrainians were able to overthrow their government, and so can you.

> Go on the street and take control of your country, before you turn into another North Korea.

So, you are saying that one should risk their life for their country? No, thank you. I never understood this kind of "patriotism".

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#588

Post by MaulingMonkey »

pydry wrote: post #365
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then what? Everybody would be happy ever after? No, Russia wants a pro-Russia government in Ukraine, and they didn't like that Ukraine instead moved away from Russia and Russian influence via things like promoting the Ukranian language instead of Russian. It's a bullying tactic and infringes on a country's sovereignty.

Is peace not the highest priority? I dont want Ukraine to be pro Russian but I dont want Kyiv to be shelled more . I dont want a nuclear war more. It absolutely is a bullying tactic, but it's also the desperate act of a country that is trying to protect the integrity of its most exposed border from an explicitly hostile power (NATO).

Belarus went pro Russian, so Kyiv is shelled instead of Minsk. I do not see the improvement.

Blood has been spilled earning freedom from tyrany ever since people have existed. Because it was worth it. Because it was cheaper than continuing to pay the price in blood of tolerating tyrany. Blood will continue to be spilled in the name of freedom for as long as people continue to tyranize each other, because it will continue to, at some point, be worth it.

It might be cheaper over the long run to keep freedom than to constantly abandon it - and then only later, when it is much more difficult to effect change, to attempt to reclaim it. But even that may not be an option, for many are too stubborn or ignorant to learn from the mistakes of history or others - no, they must make the mistake themselves, and leave it to their children to pay the price.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#589

Post by modernpink »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #526
ceilingcorner wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is really distressing, not only because it’s ethically wrong to blame groups of people for individual actions, but also because it’s pragmatically against the interests of the West. We gain nothing by escalating this.

"We" did not escalate this; Russia did by annexing Crimea in 2014 and invading Ukraine. They could have chosen not to do so and instead focus on building up good international relationships. What did they think they had to gain from annexing neighbouring territory? More control over the Black Sea I guess, but why do they want that control in the first place? Russia can de-escalate by withdrawing. The only way for 'th…

We also have to understand Russia's grievances instead of seeing it in terms of an evil side attacking the good side because it's not that simple. The US would hardly be best pleased if Mexico started receiving arms from China and North Korea right at its border.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#590

Post by rmind »

orloffm wrote: post #339
darawk wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't entirely disagree but I think a slightly better framing is: It's not their fault, but it is their responsibility. Putin is a problem for the world, and it's a problem that can only be properly solved by the Russian people. Unfortunately, that means whether they deserve it or not, they are the group to whom pressure needs to be applied.

I am a Russian citizen. How it is my responsibility? I never supported Putin and hate him as much as anyone. They destroyed Moscow over the last 20 years, gave up on Russians left in former ex-USSR countries, created a separate society of asian immigrants, muted all opposition. How am I responsible? Should I buy a tank of gazoline and go burn Kremlin? Then what? Is every european responsible for not stopping NATO in…

Were German people responsible for Nazis? Russians have been figting Nazis so fiercly during the World War 2 and it is so ironic that they have a Nazis in Kremlin now.. with many supporting them or just doing nothing about it.
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