Tell HN: If You Are in Russia • Hacker News Board

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#531

Post by Cthulhu_ » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 10:03 AM UTC

nikanj wrote: post #367

jeffrallen wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be easier to fix your own government. General strike. They can arrest protesters, but they cannot arrest the entire working population.

"They" are also Russians. The key here would be convincing members of the police / army that they should work for the people, not Putin.

That's the real issue right now, the people can do all kinds of civil disobedience, but as long as the police just rounds them up and arrests them by the thousands it won't change anything.

I wonder what it'll take. Given that currently the Russian economy is getting decimated, I wonder if it'll take a few weeks or months of not getting paid. But that might just make them more ruthless and make them start extorting people for money, since they still hold power.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#532

Post by MrDisposable » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 10:03 AM UTC

willis936 wrote: post #378

MrDisposable wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may work in a country where private business (i.e. state-independent source of income) is dominant, but a lot of Russians have jobs at state-owned institutions now (various administrations etc.) where they work for a meager wage. If they go out protesting, they will be fired from their jobs -- their only source of income. Not exactly a good decision, especially during the crisis times.

The sky is falling and you think workers should be concerned with a wage that can't even afford bread and a roof? The sanction squeeze shifts the calculus.

If they don't have that wage, how do they eat?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#533

Post by anovikov » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 10:04 AM UTC

Ambolia wrote: post #389

jdrc wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is becoming a theme with immigrant communities, in a similar vein how german Turks are supportive of Erdogan. I'm sure those people are not evil, but this phenomenon is worthy of investigation.

People migrate for economic reasons, not because they want to replace their own brain with the brain of the destination country people. The US was was relatively good at integrating migrants into a certain idea of america, but that's not the norm around the world, and I don't think that vision of america exists anymore. Maybe in the upper-middle class, but certainly gone in the lower classes.

To Cyprus, Russian migrate to hide their money here and live a normal life in a normal country. They are not poor by any measure.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#534

Post by 5e92cb50239222b » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 10:04 AM UTC

sakopov wrote: post #472

The reason Russia has elevated tyrants to power for centuries is deep-rooted in Russian soul to the point where it's not even a problem. It's something that is inexplicably difficult to understand unless you actually experience the culture for a good portion of your life. There is a lot of literature out there about the "Russian Soul" and I really recommend reading it to understand how this happens. In my opinion it'…

I don't know. The propaganda has been working extremely well, and (IMHO) any dissent was possible mostly due to the internet being widely available, which is closing down pretty fast.

Some of my Russian friends (most of whom work in IT) are leaving the country already, others are looking for the best way to go about it.

Children in kindergartens have been building toy tanks and missiles for the past few years, the remains of the free press have written about this extensively. "Patriotic education" in schools is growing and is pushing the worldview of the madman on top into the growing kids' conscience.

I think the country is fucked, honestly. There's no decent way to say it.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#535

Post by modo_mario » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 10:04 AM UTC

jsmith99 wrote: post #86

randomsearch wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, intervention in Yugoslavia wasn’t a war started by the US. The Kuwait war was after an invasion by Iraq and at the invitation of the government there, and the US were restrained enough to halt at the Iraq border. The Syrian war was not started by the US, and it has played a minor part there. In fact, it is Russia that has indiscriminately bombed Syrian cities and targeted civilians and hospitals there. Afghanis…

The Iraq war was a terrible error but it still can't be compared to Ukraine. America had no plans to colonise Iraq or absorb it into its empire. Despite the enormous death and suffering the war caused, America's aim was naive altruism: getting rid of an unquestionably evil dictator who used WMDs on his own people. There are conspiracy theories that America invaded to steal Iraq's oil but they are not plausible.

Greenspan who was US chair of the fed at the time is a bit less naive about the matter. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/sep/16/iraq.iraqtimel...

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#536

Post by roca » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 10:04 AM UTC

aiProgMach wrote: post #481

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We" tried talking, "we" didn't do the warmongering, where is that coming from? Granted, the US did a lot of warmongering in the middle east; I get that they wanted to retaliate after 9/11, but instead of rooting out the ones responsible directly they made up a motive (WOMD in Iraq) and did a full scale invasion there; I'm not saying Iraq was a pleasant, peaceful country or that Hussein was a nice guy, but the US inv…

Even when you're admitting that "US did a lot of warmongering in the middle east" you want to give them some excuses, "I get that they wanted to retaliate after 9/11" you say? "retaliate" you say. Against whom exactly? How the (oppressed) Iraqi people or even Saddam Hussein has to do anything with the 9/11? Do I really need to remind you that Saddam was US ally? or that Qaeda was the US ally in the "freedom" war agai…

He was a US ally in the 80s. Later he wasn't.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#537

Post by adriancr » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 10:04 AM UTC

Ambolia wrote: post #406

orloffm wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably are from some eastern european country and now are just happy to spit poison at us. The amount of devastation bolsheviks caused in 20-30s, two insane wars, complete cultural destruction, what else should people go through?

The Clintons selling Russia to oligarchs in the 90s and causing a drop in life-expectancy of 10 years in the male population

> The Clintons selling Russia to oligarchs in the 90s

How did that happen?, Did they own Russia or something?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#538

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 10:04 AM UTC

d0mine wrote: post #237

MrDisposable wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm trying to understand the scale of Putin's decision Drastic. Catastrophic. Suicidal. World-changing. The country (Russia) in its current form has just ceased to exist. The entire parasitic elite class just got cut off from everything they stole during all these years. The entire human potential of Russia just got nullified for at lest 20 years. The push towards green energy (and I hope nuclear fusion) just got a…

NATO would have destroyed Russia anyway. After the drastic intensification of anti-Russia propaganda in 201x which prepared the population to accept it, it is a matter of time. There is nothing nothing Russia might do to stop the agression (bully always finds pretext). It is not new: no matter the regime, the West will always try to dismantle Russia. Ukraine is a desperate attempt to defend the state against much mor…

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#539

Post by aa-jv » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 10:04 AM UTC

xorfish wrote: post #390

darebak wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Russia is interested in anything other than Ukraine. Everything else is just fear mongering, atleast Slovak media does that well.

Except the explicit words of the dictator of Russia. There is nothing to contradict the view, that Putin doesn't want to restore the old Tsar or Soviet borders.

Which explicit words?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#540

Post by watwut » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 10:04 AM UTC

throwaway2037 wrote: post #495

pydry wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "Ukraine will remain neutral and will not join NATO" would have stopped this war. It's an unpopular fact but it's still true.

It pains me to admit that I agree with you. This is naturally "realpolitik", but makes many people uncomfortable.

To large extend, because this is international forum. While some Americans don't mind to sacrifice others, other nato members in fact mind being sacrificed. For them "realpolitik" is not "sacrifice me", no matter how much it makes you uncomfortable.