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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#421

Post by drran »

dmitrygr wrote: post #193
rimliu wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How good are people being bombed in Ukraine cities feel? Only the Russian people can stop this.

Ever lived under a dictator? Ever tried to stop him from doing something? Ever done either of the above while having a family you care about? At the end of the day, no sane person would place their family in mortal danger to maybe possibly potentially make life easier for a large number of unknown far away people.

Do Italian sabotage[0] (Итальянская забастовка[1]): execute all rules and laws as precisely as possible. It's the safest form of protest.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-to-rule

[1]: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C...

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#422

Post by belorn »

squarefoot wrote: post #302
kungito wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been multiple active wars in like 1/4 of the world the whole time since ww2 and all the time before that. The only thing different is that Ukraine is closer to EU than the rest of the countries.

Chechnya war also was very close and nobody cared since they were mostly Islamic, and the war in the former Yugoslavia happened just in the middle of Europe, but apparently many have already lost memory of it despite the atrocities committed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre

Media and news looked a bit difference in 1992, and it was mostly seen as an civil war of the former Yugoslavia rather than an invasion force of one country entering an other country in order to capture land. It seemed to have more similarities with the situation in Northern Ireland than with Lebensraum.

Lebensraum really scares people. Religious conflict are concerning, but the French wasn't directly worried that the UK might go after them next once the Northern Ireland situation got settled.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#423

Post by necovek »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #293
teekert wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I realize it is perhaps hypocritical, but somehow I thought we had figured it out. I mean we (EU and US) also could have done more talking less warmongering. I’m also disappointed with our leaders.

"We" tried talking, "we" didn't do the warmongering, where is that coming from? Granted, the US did a lot of warmongering in the middle east; I get that they wanted to retaliate after 9/11, but instead of rooting out the ones responsible directly they made up a motive (WOMD in Iraq) and did a full scale invasion there; I'm not saying Iraq was a pleasant, peaceful country or that Hussein was a nice guy, but the US inv…

European countries were pretty heavily involved in the NATO bombing of Serbia. You can debate the justification, but it's certainly not "live and let live".

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#424

Post by hdjjhhvvhga »

simonh wrote: post #366
teekert wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again I feel like anything I say is just some dude talking from a safe place far from the front lines. But I think the west could have acknowledged the fear of the NATO, the EU could have told Biden that we prefer a good relation with Russia and that if we think our culture is in fact more free, it will leak into Russia via the internet. This discussion can and will take very long. I just wanted to say I’m disappoint…

That's exactly the strategy we've been trying with both Russia and China for several decades now - playing soft and hoping they mellow with time. Obama tried a 'reset' of relations with Russia to improve relations in 2009, the result was the invasion of Crimea. Democratisation through osmosis has utterly failed. The result has been the subjugation of Hong Kong, genocide in Xinjiang and the invasion of Ukraine. Taiwan…

Ukraine is both bad and good lesson for Chinese: bad, because nobody intervenes with an army. Good, because it shows what the consequences for the economy of the invader are. And the West should buckle up and prepare for retaliation - this is especially important in essential areas such as drug production. If China attacks Taiwan, it will set the clock back two decades or more, for everybody.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#425

Post by Ambolia »

jsmith99 wrote: post #255
youarethebest wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WMDs? That was a lie. They invaded to preserve the dollar regime/oil. Not plausible? I think you've been watching too many Marvel movies where good vs evil is "obvious"

How would the invasion preserve the dollar regime? As for the WMDs, I referred to Saddam's history, not to America's discredited invasion pretext.

https://usiraq.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000911

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#427

Post by shrimpx »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #233
fabian2k wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's simply not possible to change the infrastructure that fast. Gas is used for heating, that's not optional in winter. Europe needs to build more LNG terminals (which they decided to do) and order gas from other countries that have the ability to greatly increase their output. This all takes time, but in the long run Europe will stop being as dependen on Russian gas and oil as they are now, Putin made sure of that.

Western Europeans willingly made themselves dependent on gas. It was supposed to be an intermediate step for "ecological" transition away from coal. But unlike coal, which is widely available in Europe and from other countries (the coal mines may have closed in many countries, but the coal is still there), gas is hard to obtain in Europe and need to rely on a few gas countries. When Trump criticized German dependency…

This is true, especially Germany and Italy, and Germany in particular. Even now they're in the process of shutting down more nuclear power, to become even more dependent on Russian gas. It's idiotic and pathetic, really. I hope Scholz has more of a brain than Merkel.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#428

Post by dash2 »

pydry wrote: post #282
ogogmad wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think that talking to Hitler is going to stop a war?

Saying "Ukraine will remain neutral and will not join NATO" would have stopped this war. It's an unpopular fact but it's still true.

It is not true. There was zero chance that Ukraine was going to join NATO. It wasn’t on the table.

Putin has explicitly told us why he went to war, and it is to do with reversing Russia’s territorial losses since 1991 or even 1917.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#429

Post by aa-jv »

netsharc wrote: post #376
thejackgoode wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every Russian passport holding person is responsible for this conflict. The sooner they understand this, the more country remaining they will have when this will end

Geez.. this whole comment section is a terrible take. By this logic 9/11 was fully justified.

It is really incredible to see these terrible takes being proliferated as if they don't mean more bloodshed, turmoil and suffering.

It seems the lesson of 9/11 was not learned, and there will simply be more events just like it until Americans understand, they do not have the exceptional moral authority to get away with crimes against humanity and war crimes, if they're not willing to grant those same 'rights' to other nation states too.

Oh wait, they do grant those 'rights' to other nation states, its just a matter of whether those states have the moolah to keep American military industrial complex partners in caviar ..

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#430

Post by 5ESS »

khyryk wrote: post #388
5ESS wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are sanctions going to make anybody more informed? They dont…That makes no sense. Instead of sanctions, a more effective strategy would be to provide Russians with free VPNs so that they can access western news media.

Russia has been running Goebbels-levels of propaganda to counteract whatever benefit came from access to western media. How much progress has been made since 2014?

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