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New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

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Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#391

Post by mikestew »

barbazoo wrote: post #373
ubermonkey wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are pictures to prove the VEHICLE was there, but the mechanism then assumes the owner of the vehicle was the driver, which is a problem.

Take two pictures then maybe, one from the front, one from the back. But also, unless the vehicle was stolen, why not put the burden of proof on the owner. Don't people know who they're giving their car to? I think that's how it works in many European countries. If the car is stolen, just file a report.

why not put the burden of proof on the owner.

In the U. S., I'm innocent until proven guilty: prove it was me. No, I'm not telling you who was driving, because my lawyer said something something 5th amendment. But that's the theory, as this not-a-lawyer understands it. In practice, you'll just pay the ticket because the future of civil rights law does not rest on determining who was driving the car that day, and you know it was you anyway.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#392

Post by karaterobot »

I have no sympathy for people who'd get tickets as a result of this. It's illegal, and inexcusably rude.

However, any kind of automated surveillance-based ticketing makes me nervous. We should be careful about turning off our skepticism about the misuse of information just because it's being used to punish people we have no sympathy for.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#393

Post by lowbloodsugar »

technothrasher wrote: post #375
lowbloodsugar wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, you didn't apply that level of criticism to the parent post either. Some person's niece saying the police chief said it? Like that wouldn't be news worthy? Like the police chief wouldn't immediately raise that to the press because "look what these liberals are telling me now"? Um, he's sick. My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the gir…

Seneca didn't say it was true. They simply questioned acdha's claim that it was false. This is fair to question. But I suspect based on the rest of acdha's post that "it's not true" was shorthand for the more reasonable "I'm not convinced that it's true".

Sure. But senaca wasn't upset how 01100011 got from "My best friends sisters boyfriend" to "That sounds unbelievable but that's straight from the mouth of the local chief of police."

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#394

Post by kelnos »

habosa wrote: post #62

YES THANK YOU The vast majority of motorcyles in America are illegally modified to be louder than they should [0]. This crime is basically impossuble to police because you need an offer with a reliable sound meter device in the right place at the right time. I am glad NY is going to automate this. I used to live on a street (Guerrero St in SF) that had loud motorcycles ripping down in the middle of the night on a dai…

> This crime is basically impossuble to police because you need an offer with a reliable sound meter device in the right place at the right time.

I live down the street from a biker club clubhouse. It would be beyond trivial to police this here, but of course the police don't care. Or, worse, probably have some sort of agreement with them. Meanwhile, I get woken up at 3am several times a week by a loud bike that sets off car alarms as it goes by.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#395

Post by bitminers »

chickenpotpie wrote: post #345
bitminers wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine you are walking down the street talking to someone either on your phone or in person. Facial and voice recognition are very advanced these days.

And where’s the privacy in that? I’m walking down a public street in the largest city in America talking out loud. There’s nothing private about that situation.

Perhaps a couple strangers would hear a few words but don't know who you are. If police or other state agency are pervasively watching, listening, and recording, I think you would agree that is quite a different situation.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#396

Post by whyenot »

bequanna wrote: post #112
rbanffy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cops ignore loud honking and loud cars when its right in front of them. It allows for discretionary law enforcement. Cops love it. They can ignore it you if they like you, or fine you if they don't.

But, this system does kinda work and allows for police to charge antisocial assholes with a crime while letting normal, reasonable people who made a simple mistake off with a warning.

Discretion can be abused. "Normal, reasonable people," can be anyone with an 11-99 Foundation license plate holder. Apparently those things actually work, at least in the Bay Area. Otherwise there wouldn't be fakes and people wouldn't "donate" $500+ in order to acquire a real one.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#397

Post by jeffbee »

brokenmachine wrote: post #385
jeffbee wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't completely understand it but California laws seem to permit the sale of new motorcycles with very old designs. It appears that the laws come into force when a new model needs to be certified, or something like that. So you can buy a brand new XR650L from Honda, that still has a 1980s carbureted engine design and no catalytic converter, and that's a CARB-compliant bike for some reason.

But given the low mass, does it have more emissions than a single occupant 2 ton SUV?

The CARB standards are per-mile. CARB standards for motorcycle total hydrocarbons + NOx are 800mg per km. For light-duty vehicles (cars and trucks and SUVs Of all NOx emissions statewide from on-road cars and motorcycles, the motorcycles emit one third of it, despite being only 5% of the fleet and putting on Of course motorcycles are usually a lot better on CO2.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#398

Post by bradlys »

brokenmachine wrote: post #385
jeffbee wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't completely understand it but California laws seem to permit the sale of new motorcycles with very old designs. It appears that the laws come into force when a new model needs to be certified, or something like that. So you can buy a brand new XR650L from Honda, that still has a 1980s carbureted engine design and no catalytic converter, and that's a CARB-compliant bike for some reason.

But given the low mass, does it have more emissions than a single occupant 2 ton SUV?

When it comes to NOx and particulate stuff - yes. Much higher.

When it comes to CO2 it’s obviously less.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#399

Post by ahthat »

leephillips wrote: post #287
ahthat wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Towels work pretty well apparently (sometimes better than foam acoustic panels): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eKwb58vvFI

That video has nothing to do with soundproofing.

Towels work just as well as sound proof material and are a cheap alternative. Here are some other ideas: https://soundproofliving.com/soundproof-room-cheap-free-idea...

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#400

Post by kelnos »

tqi wrote: post #227
lamontcg wrote: post #135

This is an excellent example for people concerned with privacy rights. In order to have nice things the population really needs to culturally understand that "with great power comes great responsibility". Instead we have a culture of entirely selfish individualism, so the popular backlash is that damn near everyone is this thread (including myself) applauds the erosion of privacy rights because we're fed up and sick…

> Instead we have a culture of entirely selfish individualism, so the popular backlash is that damn near everyone is this thread (including myself) applauds the erosion of privacy rights because we're fed up and sick of living in a society with assholes. I dunno, I find this framing by "Privacy Advocates" to be a bit... hyperbolic. When every little thing is the first step to complete tyranny, nothing is. To me at le…

I agree that some things seem hyperbolic, but I'm not convinced that audio recording devices scattered around a city is one of them.
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