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Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

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Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#171

Post by WalterGR »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #164
WalterGR wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word of big business is truth and doubting it is a conspiracy theory? That’s a bit of a leap. Anyway, TFA links to more reading in its final paragraph. Look for the link in the following text: but: An analysis of crime statistics and other reporting by The Atlantic cast doubt on what it called the "great shoplifting freak-out," citing "fuzzy data" and asserting that what's being lumped together as shoplifting is…

That doesn't answer my question, but... that article you tell me to read merely says that there isn't enough information to say that there's a theft spike, it does not provide any evidence against a theft spike.

Those can be equivalent.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#172

Post by chrismcb »

tomlockwood wrote: post #25

I'd like anyone who considers more harsh jail punishments to be the solution to consider that the USA has the highest per-capita prison population in the world. Only 1/5 of those prisoners is in there for drug-related crime. Perhaps harsher punishments aren't going to help here.

Considering the current punishment is nothing... Yeah a harsher punishment will help. Didn't necessarily mean that it should be jail time.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#173

Post by AnimalMuppet »

gaganyaan wrote: post #169
ahh wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's nice. Feel free to fix the prison system at any time; if the people who come out don't commit more crimes, I'll be happy. In the meantime, imprison the people who do commit crimes, and if they do so again after they're out, imprison them again.

Such a smooth-brained take. There's a reason prisons are called "schools for crime", and it's because of silly lines like "if they do so again [...], imprison them again". Please actually think, and eventually realize that reducing recidivism rates is how you get your "people who come out don't commit more crimes".

If you've got a way of reducing recidivism, we'd all love to see it. In the meantime, though, throwing insults at ahh doesn't actually refute his/her position.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#174

Post by AnimalMuppet »

tomlockwood wrote: post #154
zthrowaway wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a high prison population so thus we shouldn’t penalize criminals? How does this even make logical sense? Maybe we have a lot of criminals because our society is decaying. Which it very much is. Drug addiction is a separate issue. Crimes have victims, do they not matter? Rampant theft leads to businesses moving out of the area, which harms the community. There are plenty of reasons to punish this behavior.

> Maybe we have a lot of criminals because our society is decaying. Ok, so maybe addressing that will be more fruitful than baying for more punishment!

It can be both/and, rather than either/or. We can try to fix a decaying society, and not let criminals run wild in the meantime.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#175

Post by AnimalMuppet »

sumthinprofound wrote: post #160
edflsafoiewq wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walmart's profits have no bearing on the fact that stealing is immoral.

Walmart has paid over $1.4 billion in wage theft settlements and fines.

And that also is immoral. However, that does not make it moral to steal from them.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#176

Post by tagoregrtst »

candiodari wrote: post #165
MattGaiser wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are challenging the assumption/claim that they are profitable.

... while avoiding all blame on management. They made no errors. Not on market research, leading to lack of profitability. Not on managing the store. Nothing is their fault. That alone makes it a bit too convenient.

Its a local pharmacy! This isnt Kodak in the late 90s dropping the ball on the advent of digital.

Its not that hard.

Hire a couple of pharmacists. Check their licenses.

Hire a dozen regular employees.

Assign a few managers.

Buy drugs. Buy soft drinks and milk. Buy personal care goods.

Open between hours of 9 to 10 pm 24-7

There’s no long term strategic plan needed (should we switch to Pepsi? Why not stock both?). Except, maybe, the prescience to only hire ex-marines.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#177

Post by tomlockwood »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #174
tomlockwood wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe we have a lot of criminals because our society is decaying. Ok, so maybe addressing that will be more fruitful than baying for more punishment!

It can be both/and, rather than either/or. We can try to fix a decaying society, and not let criminals run wild in the meantime.

Ok, but characterizing criminals as "running wild" in the country with literally the most criminals behind bars, seems odd!

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#178

Post by loudtieblahblah »

WalterGR wrote: post #106
phendrenad2 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what is the real reason they're closing the stores? I want to hear the rest of the conspiracy theory :(

The word of big business is truth and doubting it is a conspiracy theory? That’s a bit of a leap. Anyway, TFA links to more reading in its final paragraph. Look for the link in the following text: but: An analysis of crime statistics and other reporting by The Atlantic cast doubt on what it called the "great shoplifting freak-out," citing "fuzzy data" and asserting that what's being lumped together as shoplifting is…

>The word of big business is truth and doubting it is a conspiracy theory?

This is certainly the case on HackerNews if it's a censoring tech company or a BigPharma Corp like Pfizer

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#179

Post by antisthenes »

lamontcg wrote: post #168
csense wrote: post #18

For me, it's a systems design problem. How do you design a law enforcement system that (1) doesn't grind down poor and minorities the way the current system does, yet (2) still makes punishment for minor crimes like shoplifting sufficiently swift, sure, and severe to be an effective deterrent? Liberals tend to say "Let's focus on (1) and ignore (2)," while conservatives say "Let's focus on (2) and ignore (1)." Is it…

Get people jobs, get them off drugs and give them something to hope for so that you don't have to use law enforcement as the solution?

This. The best deterrent to crime is giving the criminal something to lose in the case of being arrested. And no, taking away freedom isn't really much of a deterrent if all you have to your name is $100 and a few sets of clothing and some old furniture.

I bet people with steady jobs and with secure housing commit crimes at a rate of 0.1x (or less) of those who don't.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#180

Post by gaganyaan »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #173
gaganyaan wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such a smooth-brained take. There's a reason prisons are called "schools for crime", and it's because of silly lines like "if they do so again [...], imprison them again". Please actually think, and eventually realize that reducing recidivism rates is how you get your "people who come out don't commit more crimes".

If you've got a way of reducing recidivism, we'd all love to see it. In the meantime, though, throwing insults at ahh doesn't actually refute his/her position.

It's not a secret, it's common sense:

> Norway has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world; in 2016, only 20% of inmates re-offended within 5 years. [...] Norway's prisons are renowned for being some of the best and most humane in the world.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_Norway

Treat people like people, it's that simple. Attitudes like ahh's arise from not expanding past using their lizard brain. They create more of the problem they purport to complain about. Straight contradiction.

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