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The data are clear: The boys are not all right

washingtonpost.com

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Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#311

Post by luckydata »

thrway99 wrote: post #61

My observation is that we are going to have a radical rebalancing of who reproduces and who doesn’t. Lot of men and women who are generally not too motivated to seek out a companion, lose weight, put in the work to make it happen just…won’t pass on genetics. Children are a lot of work and energy. I’m highly introverted and high earning. My wife was the aggressor in my case. She pretty much made it all happen. I think…

This is such a weird take. You really don't need to be all that special or beautiful to find a partner, I've always been a stocky guy all my life and I never had a real issue finding sexual partners and now I'm happily married with kids.

Get yourself a personality, don't be weird, dress decently and talk to people. That's really all you need, no matter what you look like there's someone out there that's into it.

Don't overcomplicate simple things.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#312

Post by TrainedMonkey »

urthor wrote: post #289
errcorrectcode wrote: post #276

Quoted post unavailable.

The Bay Area is a skewed microcosm of transplanted misfits. I'm not sure this is a great surprise to anyone. But the Bay Area is filled with people who: 1) Move cross country to live in the most bohemian region in the entire United States (San Francisco). 2) Often pursue a technology profession. An industry which has an entire nation of career guidance counselors steering introverts to work in. 3) Sticks with it when…

> wannabe high functioning alcoholics

Heh, now I really want you to characterize LA, Vegas, Seattle, and Miami inhabitants in one sentence.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#313

Post by notacoward »

paulpauper wrote: post #111

The crisis, if there is one, is that society has less use for males who have IQs between 90-105 or so, who cannot cut it in STEM, and who are finding it hard to cope with increasingly competitive economic conditions and higher overall costs like rent, and is why many men are delaying family formation or moving back with parents (but also due to careerism for women). Men are just dropping out rather than doing low-pai…

This kind of withdrawal seems to be happening in many cultures. In Japan it's called hikikomori. I forget what it's called in Italy, but I know I've read about it. Here it's the same, except ours tend to be more violent.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#314

Post by tablespoon »

irrational wrote: post #293
rayiner wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can point to the decline of organized religion and with it traditional gender roles, but then what explains the relative stability in post-Christian Europe? As far as I can tell, Europe isn’t all that post-Christian. Even countries that have low levels of people actively practicing religion still carry a strong cultural legacy from Christianity: https://www.europenowjournal.org/2019/10/02/the-catholic-nes... Co…

Who wouldn’t prefer to stay home if they had the choice? I could spend my days traveling, hiking, going to the beach, reading, working on hobbies, learning new skills, cooking, etc.

>> Among women with children under 18, 56% would prefer a “homemaker” role if they were “free” to do either: https://news.gallup.com/poll/186050/children-key-factor-wome.... Contrast with just 26% of men. 39% of women without kids would also prefer to stay home if they had the choice.

> Who wouldn’t prefer to stay home if they had the choice? I could spend my days traveling, hiking, going to the beach, reading, working on hobbies, learning new skills, cooking, etc.

"Homemaker" does not mean "staying at home, doing whatever you want."

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#315

Post by gunfighthacksaw »

edmcnulty101 wrote: post #239
thrway99 wrote: post #61

My observation is that we are going to have a radical rebalancing of who reproduces and who doesn’t. Lot of men and women who are generally not too motivated to seek out a companion, lose weight, put in the work to make it happen just…won’t pass on genetics. Children are a lot of work and energy. I’m highly introverted and high earning. My wife was the aggressor in my case. She pretty much made it all happen. I think…

I think the obesity problem is linked to the fact that many people have to work 60 hours a week to survive and don't have the time/energy to get in shape. Capitalism has taken a large swath of people out of the dating game just due to working to survive.

Being overweight is overwhelmingly related to eating habits. As the sage advice goes: “you can’t outrun a bad diet”

You may have an argument with the absolute bullshit that people eat in our consumerist society but the fact of the matter is, if your calorie needs are 2000/day and you eat 14000 calories per week of grains, pulses, veg, fruit, meat, etc in the ‘right’ amounts, you’ll stay trim if you’re trim, you’ll stay fat if you’re fat, and any changes need you to adjust the calorie balance accordingly through eating more, eating less or exercising more.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#316

Post by bluecalm »

irrational wrote: post #293
rayiner wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can point to the decline of organized religion and with it traditional gender roles, but then what explains the relative stability in post-Christian Europe? As far as I can tell, Europe isn’t all that post-Christian. Even countries that have low levels of people actively practicing religion still carry a strong cultural legacy from Christianity: https://www.europenowjournal.org/2019/10/02/the-catholic-nes... Co…

Who wouldn’t prefer to stay home if they had the choice? I could spend my days traveling, hiking, going to the beach, reading, working on hobbies, learning new skills, cooking, etc.

Homemaker role doesn't mean spending your days travelling, hiking or going to the beach.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#317

Post by redisman »

lph wrote: post #133
dang wrote: post #14

Here's the full Orwell quote. People are wrong when they think that an unemployed man only worries about losing his wages; on the contrary, an illiterate man, with the work habit in his bones, needs work even more than he needs money. An educated man can put up with enforced idleness, which is one of the worst evils of poverty. But a man like Paddy, with no means of filling up time, is as miserable out of work as a d…

"No country, however rich, can afford the waste of its human resources. Demoralization caused by vast unemployment is our greatest extravagance. Morally, it is the greatest menace to our social order." -FDR

The thing is - we’re at 4% unemployment. Which is probably about as low as a service based economy can get.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#318

Post by corpMaverick »

irrational wrote: post #293
rayiner wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can point to the decline of organized religion and with it traditional gender roles, but then what explains the relative stability in post-Christian Europe? As far as I can tell, Europe isn’t all that post-Christian. Even countries that have low levels of people actively practicing religion still carry a strong cultural legacy from Christianity: https://www.europenowjournal.org/2019/10/02/the-catholic-nes... Co…

Who wouldn’t prefer to stay home if they had the choice? I could spend my days traveling, hiking, going to the beach, reading, working on hobbies, learning new skills, cooking, etc.

Yes, me too.

But, would you still feel the same if you had to stay home to take care of kids and a working spouse ?

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#319

Post by wahern »

ninkendo wrote: post #226
TylerLives wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IQ has been declining for a while now - https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1718793115

For males, in Norway, from 1962-1991, and with a range of roughly three points. Got anything a little more widespread/recent to back up that claim? Here's what Our World in Data says: https://ourworldindata.org/intelligence

> Got anything a little more widespread/recent to back up that claim?

The Norwegian study cited to "Dutton E, van der Linden D, Lynn R (2016) The negative Flynn effect: A systematic literature review. Intelligence 59:163–169". Here's the HN thread on that paper specifically: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13723859 (Haven't read it myself; was just curious.)

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#320

Post by vmception »

paulpauper wrote: post #111

The crisis, if there is one, is that society has less use for males who have IQs between 90-105 or so, who cannot cut it in STEM, and who are finding it hard to cope with increasingly competitive economic conditions and higher overall costs like rent, and is why many men are delaying family formation or moving back with parents (but also due to careerism for women). Men are just dropping out rather than doing low-pai…

> having to deal with political correctness at the office and other inconveniences.

I think there is room for another look at this (without condoning it):

men have careerism out of necessity for stability - or at least conveying stability - and made environments that were comfortable for them to make it tolerable

women have careerism out of choice for stability and are finding pursuing this choice out of pride enters them into an environment that was never really about professionalism

so the two audiences are exploiting themselves in office and corporate environments for different reasons or pressures

I'm all for making environments comfortable for a greater population to be productive and sustain their lifestyle, I think acknowledging why an environment is uncomfortable for new entrants can help that

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