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The data are clear: The boys are not all right

washingtonpost.com

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Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#271

Post by [deleted] »

staticman2 wrote: post #185
decafninja wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Providing for the family" traditionally refers to bringing in an income. Of course technically that's not the only thing, but for argument's sake. I'm curious - are there any human cultures where the woman was the traditionally (as in, not a recent modern phenomenon) the breadwinner and the men stayed at home? I know there are cultures that were matriarchal in leadership, and that there are animal species (i.e. lion…

Women needed to stay with the kids to breastfeed. Baby formula was only invented around 1865. Any traditional culture is going to need women to stay with the babies to keep them from starving. However women would take babies with them while doing things like picking nuts and berries.

[deleted]

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#272

Post by muh_gradle »

klodolph wrote: post #217
muh_gradle wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also live in NYC, and completely disagree with this take on Yang. I can't think of anyone who gets hated more unfairly than him. He provides actual substantive policy suggestions with evidence to support his claims. He doesn't resort to dirty muck-raking the same way that the other mayoral candidates and the NY Times did. In fact, NY Times and the NY Daily News spent so much time focusing on bashing Yang that it's…

I read the policies on Yang's website during the NYC race and dug into them. > He provides actual substantive policy suggestions with evidence to support his claims. This is untrue. The policy suggestions are all poorly researched and reminded me of the kind of ideas you'd see on a comedy show like Silicon Valley... you know, TV depictions of tech bros coming up with "solutions" for problems that they don't understan…

> The policy suggestions are all poorly researched and reminded me of the kind of ideas you'd see on a comedy show like Silicon Valley... you know, TV depictions of tech bros coming up with "solutions" for problems that they don't understand.

Spare me the uneducated "tech bro" commentary that I've heard throughout. It's unoriginal. I'm eager to hear your ranked choices and what policies made so much more sense to you though than Yang's and what Yang's good ideas were.

Yang made PR plunders sure, but it was completely disproportionate. It's odd to me that you can be so complimentary towards Eric Adams though, Brooklyn borough president, a position that's notorious for doing literally nothing. Voting in local elections is important, but I consider living in NYC rather than Fort Lee, NJ to be mayor to be even more important. NYC newspapers certainly didn't care though.

Here's the best example of the muck-raking that I can think of, which I've been thinking about since Michelle Go's murder. Yang talked about the mentally ill, homeless population, the need for enforcement of Kendra's law, psych beds, and the concern of ordinary New Yorkers. The media and voters ran with the soundbites to mean that Yang hates homeless people. Kendra's Law would have saved Michelle Go's life by the way.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#273

Post by paulryanrogers »

chrisseaton wrote: post #236
thrway99 wrote: post #61

My observation is that we are going to have a radical rebalancing of who reproduces and who doesn’t. Lot of men and women who are generally not too motivated to seek out a companion, lose weight, put in the work to make it happen just…won’t pass on genetics. Children are a lot of work and energy. I’m highly introverted and high earning. My wife was the aggressor in my case. She pretty much made it all happen. I think…

> Lot of men and women who are generally not too motivated to seek out a companion, lose weight, put in the work to make it happen I don't think you need these things to find a partner and have children. Just go to a maternity ward. It sounds like you think everyone there is highly motivated, physically fit, and dedicated to working on relationships. They aren't. They're just normal people with a range of human flaws…

IDK starting the baby making process isn't terribly difficult once one has a partner. It's the carrying to term and everything after that is a lot of time, money, and energy.

Some folks will struggle more with the partnering aspect than others. Or mustering the will and resources to begin parenting.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#274

Post by wahern »

ytwombly wrote: post #150

US-based cis-hetero white man here. The data reinforce the impression you get glancing at the headlines or spending a day out anywhere in America observing other men. Dare I say it even reinforces what I know from painful firsthand experience as a man, at the lowest points in my life. I was lucky though, with a supportive family who helped me through the confusing years of early adulthood. You can point to the declin…

> the relative stability in post-Christian Europe

Relative stability might be too presumptuous. Far right politics in Europe is playing better now than it has in generations, AFAIU. Largely for the same socio-economic reasons it has in the U.S. and elsewhere. The rise of conservative populism is a global phenomenon, which is strong evidence for it having a shared origin, such as trade-induced labor dislocation, the rise of social media, etc.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#275

Post by micromacrofoot »

decafninja wrote: post #11
frankbreetz wrote: post #5

>>Median wages for men have declined since 1990 in real terms. Roughly one-third of men are either unemployed or out of the workforce. I wonder how much of this is because more women are joining the workforce. If men are leaving the workforce by their own free will because their wife is working and they are staying home with the kids, both of these facts could be true, but seems like a win in both gender equality ter…

Do many married men really want that kind of life though? It's one thing to be single and roaming the world carefree. But my observation has been that most men who are married, especially if with children, have some innate desire to provide for the family and not being able to do so (due to unemployment, underemployment, etc.) causes them stress even if the wife is earning more than enough. Those that don't seem to b…

anecdotally I would love to spend all my time taking care of my kids, cooking, cleaning, etc… I find it much more enjoyable than working for someone else

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#277

Post by paulryanrogers »

birdyrooster wrote: post #75
zozbot234 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being awkward around women in High School is a given, but as a thirty-something it can be profoundly uncomfortable and off-putting. Males should be fixing that by making some female friends. Don't go the "creepy incel who hates all women and Chads" route.

Try that in a town with double the men that there are women. Easier to switch hit.

Where is the ratio that skewed?!

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#278

Post by y-c-o-m-b »

marcellus23 wrote: post #249
uoaei wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yours is an argument of kind in reply to an argument of degree.

The degree is irrelevant. I don't doubt that men have privilege — but the "but women have it worse!" comment often shows up on articles like these, and since it's just whataboutism, it feels like it's suggesting that we shouldn't care about these issues. Shouldn't we care about how society is treating people, no matter who they are, instead of getting into a pissing contest about who society is _really_ screwing over…

> Shouldn't we care about how society is treating people, no matter who they are, instead of getting into a pissing contest about who society is _really_ screwing over the most?

This is a great point that often gets overlooked in discussions around gender, race, sexuality, class, or any other issue surrounding equality. I think people often hone in on the latter and it becomes counter-productive to fixing these issues. Thanks for bringing it up.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#279

Post by urthor »

chrisseaton wrote: post #236
thrway99 wrote: post #61

My observation is that we are going to have a radical rebalancing of who reproduces and who doesn’t. Lot of men and women who are generally not too motivated to seek out a companion, lose weight, put in the work to make it happen just…won’t pass on genetics. Children are a lot of work and energy. I’m highly introverted and high earning. My wife was the aggressor in my case. She pretty much made it all happen. I think…

> Lot of men and women who are generally not too motivated to seek out a companion, lose weight, put in the work to make it happen I don't think you need these things to find a partner and have children. Just go to a maternity ward. It sounds like you think everyone there is highly motivated, physically fit, and dedicated to working on relationships. They aren't. They're just normal people with a range of human flaws…

Throwaway's point about how the system is extremely self-selecting is still a very good one though.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#280

Post by [deleted] »

marcellus23 wrote: post #249
uoaei wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yours is an argument of kind in reply to an argument of degree.

The degree is irrelevant. I don't doubt that men have privilege — but the "but women have it worse!" comment often shows up on articles like these, and since it's just whataboutism, it feels like it's suggesting that we shouldn't care about these issues. Shouldn't we care about how society is treating people, no matter who they are, instead of getting into a pissing contest about who society is _really_ screwing over…

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