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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#961

Post by fithisux »

tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

Nice fairytale but you should see more television. People who decided to not get the jab have been hunted like animals. And people that got the jab got really sick or died and infected others.

Also there were effective medications for covid but people were misled to believe that they did not work, people died and were terrorized to get vaccinated.

This is a crime. Unless you enjoy it.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#962

Post by ls15 »

walterbell wrote: post #38

The media's binary separation of populations into vax and unvax is a false dichotomy. More causal factors would be represented by: 1. Covid-recovered 2. Vaccinated 3. Partly-vaccinated ( CDC reporting bundles #3 and #4. UK reports all 4 categories separately. #1 was already a high percentage in 2021 and is now higher due to Omicron. Edit: CDC estimated pre-Omicron #1 as 146 million people (as of Oct 2021), https://ww…

> The media's binary separation of populations into vax and unvax is a false dichotomy. More causal factors would be represented by:

> 1. Covid-recovered

> 2. Vaccinated

> 3. Partly-vaccinated (> 4. Covid-naive + Unvaccinated

And my group:

   5. Vaccinated and Covid-recovered
I consider this as the gold standard of SARS-CoV-2 immunization.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#963

Post by edanm »

rkk3 wrote: post #827
edanm wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, that's a pretty decent comparison. Society has spent the last few decades encouraging people not to smoke, using everything from campaigns to actual laws that make it harder to smoke. This has caused smoking to go down a lot. So in that sense, the response to COVID is similar - though on an accelerated time scale, because the epidemic is much worse.

> So in that sense, the response to COVID is similar - though on an accelerated time scale, because the epidemic is much worse. Tobacco still causes 480K+ deaths a year in the US so saying covid is worse is a very strong claim. https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/heal...

Thanks for bringing those numbers. Kind of crazy to me that tobacco still causes so many deaths - I had no idea.

I think the epidemic is worse in a few particular ways (though obviously not as bad in other ways as smoking, since I doubt COVID will keep causing 480k deaths a year). Ways in which it is worse:

1. It causes a spike of hospitalizations - this causes much less healthcare to be available in general. Smoking is already (regretably) factored in, I imagine, and doesn't cause sudden spikes.

2. COVID is generally not something you can protect yourself from - unlike smoking, which is to a much greater extent a personal choice.

3. Efforts to contain COVID are having a drastic effect on the economy in a way that smoking doesn't (both government-mandated and personal actions.)

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#964

Post by tehjoker »

reducesuffering wrote: post #564
tehjoker wrote: post #422

This guy said amid declining cases. What decline??

The decline seen when looking at case counts in the US. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us 7 day average is in decline, from a high of 800k daily cases to the current 600k cases.

Technically that is a decline, but we are still at more cases per day than at any point during the previous waves.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#965

Post by mint2 »

twblalock wrote: post #867
mint2 wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>” At this point if an adult in the US is unvaccinated it is (1) almost certainly by choice (there are some people who cannot get it for medical reasons but they make up only a very tiny fraction of the unvaccinated), and (2) it is very unlikely that any evidence or logical arguments will chance their minds.” This typical line of thought ignores a huge issue. Vaccine mandates don’t help per se, but it’s an issue that…

There always have been, and always will be, vulnerable immunocompromised people. We didn't reorganize society around that fact before the pandemic, and we shouldn't do so now. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but we can't keep using things that will never change as reasons to persist with a state of emergency -- otherwise that state of emergency will never end.

You may want to reread my comment and think about what I’m saying, you didn’t need to come out and advocate abandoning immunocompromised people to Covid.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#966

Post by hatware »

pedrosorio wrote: post #527
scohesc wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're Canadian, you're not allowed to leave the country if you're not vaccinated. https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/domest... - the part specifically about "You need to be vaccinated to travel in and out of Canada" They've made it a requirement to be vaccinated to use any form of federally regulated transportation - plane, train, boat - personal vehicles are the last option, but good luck tryi…

Thanks for the info, but nothing in the thread I was responding to gave me the impression the GP was referring exclusively to Canada when they said: “How is the virus crossing oceans so quickly if the unvaccinated are unable to cross borders?” > but good luck trying to drive on the pacific ocean since you're not allowed to enter the US unvaccinated either AFAIK Until 5 days ago you could: https://www.forbes.com/sites…

Does "in many countries" not include the country of Canada?

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#967

Post by JPKab »

jeeeb wrote: post #730
dahfizz wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because the data shows they don't matter. Source? Because the CDC says otherwise. > In the first full week of October, vaccinated New Yorkers with a prior Covid-19 case were 19.8 times less likely to catch the virus than their unvaccinated and uninfected peers, whereas people who were unvaccinated but previously infected were 14.7 times less likely, and vaccinated but uninfected New Yorkers were just 4.5 times less…

Here is the actual study: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm?s_cid=mm... Importantly it doesn’t account for the effect of boosters and looks at pre-omicron data. That noted the best protection seems to be had by a combination of vaccination and prior infection, which is perhaps unsurprising. Also other CDC studies suggest that natural immunity declines quicker than vaccine induced immunity ( https://…

From a recent editorial from a Johns Hopkins professor addressing the CDC trying to whitewash their own failings in the study:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-high-cost-of-disparaging-na...

"Yet the CDC spun the report to fit its narrative, bannering the conclusion “vaccination remains the safest strategy.” It based this conclusion on the finding that hybrid immunity—the combination of prior infection and vaccination—was associated with a slightly lower risk of testing positive for Covid. But those with hybrid immunity had a similar low rate of hospitalization (3 per 10,000) to those with natural immunity alone. In other words, vaccinating people who had already had Covid didn’t significantly reduce the risk of hospitalization."

"Similarly, the National Institutes of Health repeatedly has dismissed natural immunity by arguing that its duration is unknown—then failing to conduct studies to answer the question. Because of the NIH’s inaction, my Johns Hopkins colleagues and I conducted the study. We found that among 295 unvaccinated people who previously had Covid, antibodies were present in 99% of them up to nearly two years after infection. We also found that natural immunity developed from prior variants reduced the risk of infection with the Omicron variant."

Classic NIH: Say there isn't enough data when challenged on a policy, then deliberately not study it. They did this for DECADES with cannabis.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#968

Post by raxxorrax »

beams_of_light wrote: post #314
parkingrift wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Great! The problem is that vaccines don't protect society unless a critical-mass of people are vaccinated. They don't protect society at all. The herd immunity goal flew out the window with Delta and left the galaxy with Omicron. We will not ever eradicate Covid-19 with vaccination. >It ends when the the threat subsides. It should end right now, then. The threat has subsided. We have vaccines and other treatment pro…

Eradication is not the goal. Making sure hospitals aren't overwhelmed with COVID patients is the goal. Catching COVID is potentially dangerous and often times results in long recovery window. Vaccination is harmless and works. The thread will never subside; this is a new virus we will have to live with for the rest of our lives - especially considering we can't seem to get everyone to do the right thing, even with go…

No, that was explicitly not the goal. That is after the goal has massively shifted when new realities surfaced. Our hospitals are optimized to work at 100% load in normal operation. If any external even increases that load it is expected that there will be problems.

> The thread will never subside

Threat from diseases? No, probably not. But the threat from this virus will be manageable without us changing much.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#969

Post by Handytinge »

reedjosh wrote: post #848
SCHiM wrote: post #805

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but in my opinion that is a silly thing to believe. I'm assuming you're from a liberal democracy, what if I told you you could have _your_ name on the (local) ballot next time a $LOCAL vote comes around? The government, for the most part, is not an evil cabal of deep state cultists (in most countries that describe themselves as liberal today). People like you or me can join a party, and then get elected within…

Sure, I could end up voted in as the mayor of a small town. That's nothing like making it into congress. A small town mayor has none of the power a member of congress would. In democracy the larger the seat, the larger the infrastructure required to get there. The funding of this infrastructure brings the necessity of corruption.

We are discussing a conspiracy that requires the cooporation of hundreds of worldwide governments. The process to gain the power of your "congress" is fairly insignificant within this discussion. There are many governments with varying paths to power.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#970

Post by Handytinge »

donohoe wrote: post #239
quaffapint wrote: post #66

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice. My problem with mandates is where does it end? Why this mandate and not other mandates? Who gets to decide that?

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice Great! The problem is that vaccines don't protect society unless a critical-mass of people are vaccinated. The estimate for COVID-19 is that roughly 70% to 85% of the population will need to be vaccinated to reach the herd immunity threshold. USA is at about 63% fully vaccinated (76% had at least one dose). where does it end? It ends when the the threat subsides. Why this…

> The estimate for COVID-19 is that roughly 70% to 85% of the population will need to be vaccinated to reach the herd immunity threshold. USA is at about 63% fully vaccinated (76% had at least one dose).

In Australia we're over 93% double dosed. We're also in our worst outbreak with the most deaths. What is this "heard immunity threshold" meant to do?

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