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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#231

Post by dehrmann »

gibspaulding wrote: post #94
tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

>It has killed more than 865,000 Americans It looks like that's more Americans than have been killed in combat in all of the wars of the 20th century combined [1] Granted it's less than the UK lost in WW1 alone, so it's perhaps more a testament to how few the US managed to loose in the world wars (compared to Europe), but it's still wild to realize. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1009819/total-us-militar...

That's true, but not if you make the deaths per capita. WWII was per-capita deadlier in the US than covid (so far).

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#232

Post by Izkata »

eli wrote: post #221
Izkata wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around a month ago Rochelle Walensky, director of the CDC, said in an interview (paraphrased) "cloth masks are ineffective against the transmissibility of omicron". (Edit: wrong person, here's video of what I'm remembering: https://mobile.twitter.com/townhallcom/status/14733056927149... ) (Anyway that was just intended as context for below, what I think may have been the starting point for a larger shift) Thing is, t…

No she didn't. She said cloth masks were the least effective type of mask. Here's the CDC guidance: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-si... And here's a quote not a "paraphrase": "What I will say is the best mask that you can wear is the one that you will wear and the one you can keep on all day long that you can tolerate in public indoor settings and tolerate where you need to wear it," Dr. R…

Ah yeah I got two interviews mixed up - here's video of what I'm remembering: https://mobile.twitter.com/townhallcom/status/14733056927149...

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#233

Post by jrockway »

tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

I wanted to comment a little on the "choice" thing. I'm not sure that every person who is unvaccinated chose that. I had to try very hard to get my three doses. For the first series, I had to go to a faraway FEMA-run site. For the booster, I scheduled three appointments with CVS; the first two times, they canceled my appointment on the walk over (I made the first like 3 weeks in advance, and they canceled with 10 minutes notice -- "sorry, we ran out".) I did eventually get that third dose; but each signup took me about 15 minutes of typing in all of my medical information (`insert into form_responses (email, json_blob_that_is_passed_to_the_final_appointment_making_system) ...`?). I imagine some people just gave up after their first appointment was canceled.

I never saw anyone talking about this; the government websites are like "go to CVS, you can just walk in!" but in reality no CVS locations were accepting walk-ins if you asked. And even appointments were tenuous.

I feel like it's fair to place 90% of the blame on individuals, but I also think big companies are misrepresenting themselves to the government, or the government isn't asking if they actually have vaccines or not.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#234

Post by Angostura »

_fat_santa wrote: post #126
quaffapint wrote: post #66

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice. My problem with mandates is where does it end? Why this mandate and not other mandates? Who gets to decide that?

What's aggravating is all the "feel good" policies that fly in the face of the current state of the pandemic. We have gotten to the point where numerous officials have said something along the lines of "vaccines won't protect you against getting Omicron, masks don't really do anything either". So you think. Ok, we have gotten to the point where these measures are ineffective, so lets do away with the measures. And th…

> We know masks don't really work

"Don't really work" - they do work, just with varying degrees of effectiveness.

> We know vaccines don't prevent you from getting or spreading Covid

Again, it looks like the vaccinations with booster do still provide some, limited protection against infection and may also reduce viral load reducing infection risks https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788105

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#235

Post by eli »

quaffapint wrote: post #66

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice. My problem with mandates is where does it end? Why this mandate and not other mandates? Who gets to decide that?

This sort of vague "slippery slope" argument can be applied to argue against almost anything.

It is common and logical to regulate activities that could harm those around you. What cars are allowed on the road and who's allowed to drive them is carefully regulated because cars can kill or injure people. You can drive around your property with an unsafe vehicle but if you want to bring it on a public road, it needs to have working brakes and so on. Vaccine are similar because unvaccinated people are more likely to injure those around them.

Who decides? My city recently created a vaccine mandate to dine indoors at a restaurant. It was decided by the city council and the mayor, same as any other law. I think most citizens support it, but if they didn't they have all the usual ways to make that known or overturn it.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#236

Post by xadhominemx »

argvargc wrote: post #227
xadhominemx wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excess mortality is higher than reported COVID deaths. Australia contained the virus in 2020 and saw negative excess mortality. Official COVID deaths understate the true toll.

...of lockdowns?

COVID denialists often attribute excess deaths to lockdowns as opposed to undercounting of deaths from COVID. I was just preempting that line by pointing out Australia had severe lockdowns but negative excess deaths.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#237

Post by someguy5344523 »

mgh2 wrote: post #216
quaffapint wrote: post #66

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice. My problem with mandates is where does it end? Why this mandate and not other mandates? Who gets to decide that?

I rather think of vaccination as a responsibility toward your fellow citizens, rather than a "choice". This belief might be to blame for many of society's crises. https://trendguardian.medium.com/free-will-a-rich-fairy-tale...

But it looks like the vaccines don't stop the spread of covid: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#238

Post by soperj »

someguy5344523 wrote: post #237
mgh2 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rather think of vaccination as a responsibility toward your fellow citizens, rather than a "choice". This belief might be to blame for many of society's crises. https://trendguardian.medium.com/free-will-a-rich-fairy-tale...

But it looks like the vaccines don't stop the spread of covid: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/

They stop the hospitals from filling up though.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#239

Post by donohoe »

quaffapint wrote: post #66

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice. My problem with mandates is where does it end? Why this mandate and not other mandates? Who gets to decide that?

  I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice
Great! The problem is that vaccines don't protect society unless a critical-mass of people are vaccinated. The estimate for COVID-19 is that roughly 70% to 85% of the population will need to be vaccinated to reach the herd immunity threshold. USA is at about 63% fully vaccinated (76% had at least one dose).

  where does it end?
It ends when the the threat subsides.

  Why this mandate and not other mandates?
This mandate related to COVID-19 which has killed (at least) 870,837 people in America, and 5,614,744 people worldwide.

  Who gets to decide that?
The people you elect to represent you (for those of us with a democracy-like government)

Sources:

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/how-much-of-the-populatio...

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#240

Post by Jimmc414 »

mgh2 wrote: post #216
quaffapint wrote: post #66

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice. My problem with mandates is where does it end? Why this mandate and not other mandates? Who gets to decide that?

I rather think of vaccination as a responsibility toward your fellow citizens, rather than a "choice". This belief might be to blame for many of society's crises. https://trendguardian.medium.com/free-will-a-rich-fairy-tale...

Respectfully, would you mind explaining how getting vaccinated against Covid helps fellow citizens? If it is only to reduce hospital loads then can't the same responsibility be applied to those who choose to engage in unhealthy behaviors?
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