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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

ntdca.com

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#21

Post by falcolas »

msoad wrote: post #13
bhouston wrote: post #6

Why is this comment being downvoted? What part isn't true? This statement seems very specific to the US cultural context: “The only way to get compliance from people and get accommodation [is] if we demonstrate the ability to withdraw these [mandates] in the same manner in which we put them in,” Gottlieb added. In Canada, there have been experiments with slowly increasing the number of areas where you are required to…

Why you care if others get the vaccine if it does not stop the spread and new mutations as we saw with the recent variants I’m fully boosted etc. I don’t think it’s fair to compare it to Polio

We’re seeing mutations because of incubators who weren’t vaccinated.

But anymore, I’m beyond caring. Anti-vax stance is a self correcting problem.

I mourn for the young being indoctrinated, and for the immunocompromised, but those who could help them have made their choices.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#22

Post by cies »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #11
tootie wrote: post #8

I think this is kind of a big "duh" statement. Mandates were issued in the face or surging numbers and we now have waning numbers. I'm very hesitant to declare victory too soon but the day is seemingly coming soon. Of course, we'll have to reverse course yet again if there's a new wave which very well might happen. The next stage should shipping billions of doses to the poor nations that haven't gotten any yet.

Millions of people died, there's no victory.

Out of 8 billion that's not very impressive. Millions die in years without "pandemic". (quoted because in the past that mend >1% infection-deaths, this was <1%, yet still a pandemic).

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#23

Post by zzzeek »

So he was referring to the "east coast".

In New York State where I live, we have 95% first-dose vaccination status for adults and 73% for complete vaccine series (https://twitter.com/GovKathyHochul/status/148608338468219289...) .

so here, continued vaccine mandates won't have much additional effect. However, I would venture to say a whole lot of that 95% has been vaccinated *because* of the mandates that were temporarily in effect at the national level as well as the mandates that continue to be in effect (health care workers, federal contractors, large employers that mandate vaccination in any case). My general sense is that the vaccine mandates, despite their being in the process of being torn down by a very broken supreme court, most certainly helped a whole lot in states where state-level leadership was on board with the general idea.

in conservative states where vaccination rates are low, state governments are in varying degrees of defiance towards the federal government, vaccine mandates are not as effective because of the very great resistance to them in these states. you could argue that continued vaccine mandates will continue to not be very effective, and for that reason they should also be rescinded. I'd guess some replies here will make this kind of argument.

I would disagree with that argument, and it's my opinion that vaccine mandates should stay in place to the degree that it's the right thing to do, as well as the completely normal and traditional thing to do from a public health standpoint. The fierce political interference with traditional public health measures is unfortunate but that should not be a rationale for sensible policies to just be switched off.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#25

Post by peteradio »

zzzeek wrote: post #23

So he was referring to the "east coast". In New York State where I live, we have 95% first-dose vaccination status for adults and 73% for complete vaccine series ( https://twitter.com/GovKathyHochul/status/148608338468219289... ) . so here, continued vaccine mandates won't have much additional effect. However, I would venture to say a whole lot of that 95% has been vaccinated *because* of the mandates that were tempo…

The policies are sensible in your opinion, you will find that is where you are in disagreement with myself at least. The policies might be sensible with rose colored glasses and a pint of hope, but its not like what we imagined it would be way back a year ago. Ultimately vaccines should be used for those who benefit but forcing it on those who don't need it is just checking a box. Quit pretending like we don't know that most Americans have had Covid by now and that this imparts significant immunity.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#26

Post by msoad »

bhouston wrote: post #17
msoad wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why you care if others get the vaccine if it does not stop the spread and new mutations as we saw with the recent variants I’m fully boosted etc. I don’t think it’s fair to compare it to Polio

It greatly reduces deaths, which is the point of a vaccine: https://twitter.com/OurWorldInData/status/148607668061993779...

Eating five cheeseburgers a day increase the rush of death too. We don’t have laws against it.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#27

Post by nathanaldensr »

zzzeek wrote: post #23

So he was referring to the "east coast". In New York State where I live, we have 95% first-dose vaccination status for adults and 73% for complete vaccine series ( https://twitter.com/GovKathyHochul/status/148608338468219289... ) . so here, continued vaccine mandates won't have much additional effect. However, I would venture to say a whole lot of that 95% has been vaccinated *because* of the mandates that were tempo…

No post body was provided.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#28

Post by micromacrofoot »

cies wrote: post #22
micromacrofoot wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millions of people died, there's no victory.

Out of 8 billion that's not very impressive. Millions die in years without "pandemic". (quoted because in the past that mend >1% infection-deaths, this was <1%, yet still a pandemic).

Yeah and I don't call those victories either. We lost and need to do better when it happens again.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#30

Post by tzs »

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday:

> The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu.

> For the unvaccinated, however, Covid is worse than any other common virus. It has killed more than 865,000 Americans, the vast majority unvaccinated. In the weeks before vaccines became widely available, Covid was the country’s No. 1 cause of death, above even cancer and heart disease.

At this point if an adult in the US is unvaccinated it is (1) almost certainly by choice (there are some people who cannot get it for medical reasons but they make up only a very tiny fraction of the unvaccinated), and (2) it is very unlikely that any evidence or logical arguments will chance their minds.

With COVID becoming endemic everyone is going to get antibodies, with the only choice being whether you get your first antibodies by vaccination or by getting COVID.

The only question really then is how fast do we want the unvaccinated to do the getting antibodies by getting COVID thing. The faster they get it, the faster we can be as done with COVID as we are ever going to be.

I'd say the answer to that should be determined by the hospital capacity. If a region has sufficient hospital capacity that it would not be overwhelmed by the increase in COVID cases among the unvaccinated go ahead and lift most restrictions.

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