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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#401

Post by mplewis »

RedBeetDeadpool wrote: post #391
donohoe wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice Great! The problem is that vaccines don't protect society unless a critical-mass of people are vaccinated. The estimate for COVID-19 is that roughly 70% to 85% of the population will need to be vaccinated to reach the herd immunity threshold. USA is at about 63% fully vaccinated (76% had at least one dose). where does it end? It ends when the the threat subsides. Why this…

Herd immunity is for the herd. The US is where it is because we have individuals willing to fight for individual rights. If casualty of individuals is the cost to keep individuality in this country then I say let it be. The vaccinated are protected and therefore you are safe (assuming you are vaccinated). So why do you need to proselytize your doctrine on those around you? You're allowed your own opinions, chant your…

No post body was provided.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#402

Post by saturdaysaint »

twofornone wrote: post #252
eli wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> numerous officials have said something along the lines of vaccines won't protect you against getting Omicron, masks don't really do anything either" No they haven't. There's a pervasive anti-vax myth that Fauci "admitted" the vaccines don't work. Not true and didn't happen. The data are very clear that vaccines reduce your chances of getting infected (not just seriously ill or dying, but getting infected in the fir…

I don't think you understand how many assumptions are baked into the current conclusions that vaccines and masks are effective. This relies on accurate reporting of vaccination status and accurate reporting of breakthrough cases. Meanwhile in the real world covid is spreading unabated, record case counts, regardless of vaccination rate or mask compliance. Clearly something isn't adding up. Meanwhile the rosy estimate…

That's hours of "testimony" from conspiracy theorists who all have long records of making flagrantly incorrect statements on COVID. Johnson's big leadoff panelist was a Texas cardiologist who is far from a respected authority in epidemiology and seems to be courting attention by disputing every best practice that ER doctors and the scientific community have agreed works best with acute COVID patients and hyping up silver bullet drugs that have shown limited effectiveness in the best studies. I recommend everyone look up "Dr. Peter Mcullough" and getting a whiff of his reputation before investing any of their time in that panel.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#403

Post by 015a »

andrewclunn wrote: post #91

> “The only way to get compliance from people and get accommodation [is] if we demonstrate the ability to withdraw these [mandates] in the same manner in which we put them in,” Gottlieb added. Nope. That line was crossed a long time ago. I can't imagine people suddenly regaining trust in pharma companies and health care agencies now because they backed off at this point.

Correct, with the key word being "suddenly". Nothing happens suddenly; but its a necessary step toward longer-term healing of trust.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#404

Post by yibg »

ifyoubuildit wrote: post #372
srcreigh wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Encouraging natural immunity is asking for hospitals to get filled up by people giving themselves covid on purpose. This affects non covid patients too. I suspect that's why the media doesn't do it.

This response is actually an example of what I'm talking about. The comment that I replied to was explaining how the segment of the population that is a candidate for giving themselves covid while being high risk is (and has been) shrinking out of existence. Meanwhile, there is a much larger (and growing) cohort that continues to be harrased if they (fairly) decide they don't need these vaccines, and the harrasment i…

How about we do this. For people that can and “should be” vaccinated but don’t by choice due to their own risk assessment, if they catch Covid and need hospital treatment they don’t get it.

That way they have their freedom and hospital capacity isn’t put at risk. If the people refusing to get vaccinated are willing to shoulder the risk themselves I have no problems with it.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#405

Post by pessimizer »

sudosysgen wrote: post #10

Some people are saying that this is notable because Pfizer has a financial incentive to keep vaccine mandates. That is not true. Pfizer is going to be making a lot more money from their COVID treatments than from the vaccine.

And after mandates are over and with that the official crisis done, they will probably start charging for vaccines and boosters.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#406

Post by tehjoker »

heurisko wrote: post #332
tehjoker wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obesity isn't contagious and doesn't have spiky behavior in hospitalizations. We also know a reliable cure even if its very difficult to put into practice (impossible for some).

Obesity is one of the big contributors to Covid infections that require complex hospital care. The two are linked. That's why I think vaccination schemes that offered free food were undermining the "following the science" bit. As was the banning of the popular "Parkrun" in the UK, which is a collective outdoor exercise event, during the lockdown. So many policies have undermined the "follow the science" bit in my min…

one run and one meal is not gonna make or break someones weight. one vaccine might save their life

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#407

Post by tzs »

theandrewbailey wrote: post #313
tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

> I'd say the answer to that should be determined by the hospital capacity. If a region has sufficient hospital capacity that it would not be overwhelmed by the increase in COVID cases among the unvaccinated go ahead and lift most restrictions. Having anyone's freedoms dependent on available hospital capacity is a terrible way to run a society. Note that these freedoms were debated and won in an era where medicine wa…

> Note that these freedoms were debated and won in an era where medicine was terrible.

That was also an era when the US was subject to numerous epidemics and pandemics of diseases such as cholera, typhus, yellow fever, bubonic plague, smallpox, and influenza, and it was debated and found that placing restrictions to try to limit the harm from those epidemics was a legitimate exercise of the state's police power and not an infringement of civil rights.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#408

Post by acdha »

truted2 wrote: post #390
tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

“ It has killed more than 865,000 Americans, the vast majority unvaccinated.” Could someone please put a number on “vast majority”? I keep hearing this adage but a majority is 51% and there’s a big range between 51 and 100% that a word like “vast” doesn’t precisely capture..

You'd have to adjust for the period of time where vaccination wasn't available but currently the difference is best characterized as vast — the weekly rate is 10 per 100k versus 0.71 for fully vaccinated without a booster and 0.10 for boosted individuals:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-co...

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#409

Post by skillpass »

sib301 wrote: post #363
skillpass wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree - I am worried about taking hospital capacity claims at face value though. From what I've seen, it was common for hospitals to report being overwhelmed even during flu seasons pre-covid. I wouldn't classify that level of 'overwhelmed' worthy of mandates upon society. I don't doubt that during these periods of time hospital resources are strained in some way, but there's a difference between this routine level…

Dude go to a hospital in a populated area during this surge. My wife sat in the waiting room for 3 hours with SEVERE abdominal pain, DURING A PREGNANCY and was unable to be seen. We went home. If she’d had an ectopic pregnancy, she would probably not be here anymore.

I'm sorry about your experience. I do wish your wife would have received better care, but I'm not sure we can jump to the conclusion that the experience you had implies mandates and restrictions upon society are worthwhile.

Do you know that it would have been a shorter wait time during a period where the hospital wasn't overwhelmed? If so, how much shorter? Perhaps the medical staff were able to tell the signs of ectopic pregnancy in a way that allowed them put your wife lower on the triage priority list than you thought she should have been.

Does your area have any sort of restrictions? If not, how would the amount of time you had to wait be changed in a world where your area did have restrictions?

Even if you can show some benefit from the restrictions, are the benefits great enough to be worthwhile given the costs?

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#410

Post by donohoe »

beams_of_light wrote: post #314
parkingrift wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Great! The problem is that vaccines don't protect society unless a critical-mass of people are vaccinated. They don't protect society at all. The herd immunity goal flew out the window with Delta and left the galaxy with Omicron. We will not ever eradicate Covid-19 with vaccination. >It ends when the the threat subsides. It should end right now, then. The threat has subsided. We have vaccines and other treatment pro…

Eradication is not the goal. Making sure hospitals aren't overwhelmed with COVID patients is the goal. Catching COVID is potentially dangerous and often times results in long recovery window. Vaccination is harmless and works. The thread will never subside; this is a new virus we will have to live with for the rest of our lives - especially considering we can't seem to get everyone to do the right thing, even with go…

This!

I should have said this, but they mail it.

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