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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#301

Post by malermeister »

enchiridion wrote: post #242
mgh2 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rather think of vaccination as a responsibility toward your fellow citizens, rather than a "choice". This belief might be to blame for many of society's crises. https://trendguardian.medium.com/free-will-a-rich-fairy-tale...

Some people really just don’t want an experimental vaccine which sidestepped the usual regulatory approval.

That talking point no longer works. The vaccine has been taken by billions of people by now and has a larger sample size proving its safety than any other medicine in the history of humanity.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#302

Post by mullingitover »

bencoder wrote: post #24

It's amazing to me that every post that has anybody arguing against the restrictions or similar gets flagged, no matter the source or rationale. It's really the most divisive issue I've ever seen in my life.

> no matter the source or rationale

In all fairness, it doesn't get much less credible than the Epoch Times.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#303

Post by skillpass »

tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

I agree - I am worried about taking hospital capacity claims at face value though.

From what I've seen, it was common for hospitals to report being overwhelmed even during flu seasons pre-covid. I wouldn't classify that level of 'overwhelmed' worthy of mandates upon society.

I don't doubt that during these periods of time hospital resources are strained in some way, but there's a difference between this routine level of being overwhelmed and a level where freedoms should be restricted from the general public.

I don't have a good model for where the line should be drawn, but I lean towards not imposing restrictions unless massive benefit can be shown beyond a reasonable doubt.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#304

Post by FabHK »

enchiridion wrote: post #242
mgh2 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rather think of vaccination as a responsibility toward your fellow citizens, rather than a "choice". This belief might be to blame for many of society's crises. https://trendguardian.medium.com/free-will-a-rich-fairy-tale...

Some people really just don’t want an experimental vaccine which sidestepped the usual regulatory approval.

Should get BioNTech/Pfizer then, which got the usual regulatory approval.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#305

Post by topher515 »

pohl wrote: post #139
rajup wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but what do you propose though? The vaccinated still spread COVID granted at a lesser rate. A permanent mask mandate? COVID is not going away.

The idea of cooking food stayed. Sanitation stayed. The practice of washing hands stayed. Refrigeration of food stayed. Why the heck shouldn't the use masks stay?

I don't understand this position. Are you honestly proposing that we permanently require masks in all public, indoor environments? For the rest of our lives?

I don't see how you can flippantly propose this as an option. How can you be ok with wearing masks for the rest of your life—if it can at all be avoided?

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#306

Post by nicoburns »

hatware wrote: post #100
ifyoubuildit wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is so amazing to me how many people don't seem to recognize this. My (somewhat baseless) speculation on this is that a lot of the people in forums like HN are early adopter types who mostly work from home, and so were able to avoid exposure and got the vaccine relatively early. From this standpoint, I could see it being harder to empathize with folks who were exposed in everyday life (it's just a simple jab, I did…

Not to mention all of the vaccine injuries that do exist but are rarely reported on. It's almost like there's a narrative here.

Vaccine injuries are reported from official sources just the same as covid-related injuries. There’s not a big media buzz around it because the numbers are so small, and everyone knew going in that there would be a small number of adverse reactions.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#307

Post by tehjoker »

akomtu wrote: post #285
tynpeddler wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaxxed and unvaxxed populations both rely on the same medical infrastructure. So when the unvaxxed fill hospitals to recover or die, they are consuming scarce resources that are required by the population at large for other things like birth, cancer, surgery, etc. Sadly, we don't have an ethical way to let all the unvaxxed get covid without impacting the medical system negatively for the rest of us.

The same reasoning can be applied to obesity.

Obesity isn't contagious and doesn't have spiky behavior in hospitalizations. We also know a reliable cure even if its very difficult to put into practice (impossible for some).

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#308

Post by amanaplanacanal »

Jimmc414 wrote: post #259
soperj wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They stop the hospitals from filling up though.

Tobacco kills 8 million of its users, annually. Why is their presence in ICU beds not a topic of concern?

Probably because that number is fairly stable over time. Beds exist for that load. A new load is a problem, because staffed hospital beds take time to create. It takes years to make a new nurse or doctor, for instance.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#309

Post by IneffablePigeon »

MarkLowenstein wrote: post #267
webdood90 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to reduce critical cases that cause hospital visits. Our system is overwhelmed as is. The fact that this still needs to be explained 2 years into this is ridiculous.

Was that really the point? When people anxiously awaited their chance to get the vaccine in January 2021, were they thinking "ooh I can't wait to free up hospital beds"? Or was it "great now I can be immune and be done with COVID"?

I mean, both? I think the vast majority of people I knew (UK, in my 20s) knew that the main reason we were locked down was to minimize the risk of the NHS being so overrun it couldn't perform basic healthcare.

Of course personally we all just wanted to not be locked down any more but I don't actually think that many of us were staying in for our own sakes - we knew the long term risk to our own health if we were to catch it was fairly low. Very biased sample, of course.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#310

Post by varelse »

tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

New variants are now emerging every 30 days. Good luck with that plan. Why is the concept that life finds a way so hard to accept? We're getting our asses kicked by this thing.

But I would agree with you if the variants would just stop creating themselves. But it doesn't seem like any immunity really lasts. So this leads to repeatedly infecting yourself with variants as they emerge (1 in 6 chance of a bad outcome of long covid or worse), become a bit of a test rat for the latest vaccine, or some combination therein.

I'm hoping we eventually get a vaccine that transcends the evolutionary range of this thing. And then we could do exactly what you're suggesting. But that's a science project and you never know how those will go.

The main concern I have is will we be a nation crippled with PTSD and long-term healthcare concerns when this is finally over with?

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