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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#311

Post by joshuamorton »

twofornone wrote: post #273
tharne wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not to mention all of the vaccine injuries that do exist but are rarely reported on. Source?

Consider for a moment that the "antivaxxers" are correct, that there is enormous bias in our medical, pharmaceutical, and media establishments in favor of vaccine safety. Could you really expect a reliable source on the subject if this were the case? What proportion of people are willing to speak out and risk career and social suicide for being labeled an "antivaxxer"? It is a self reinforcing chilling effect - few p…

You've presented an unfalsifiable story. There's no way to prove it wrong, that's just more evidence of the conspiracy.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#312

Post by rory »

mike00632 wrote: post #249
anonfornoreason wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adjust for median age and your argument is moot

No. The vaccine prevents death. More people are dying in Florida because they are unvaccinated, not because Florida trends older.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but although the vaccine does greatly reduce probability of death, it's still very clear the substantially larger elderly population of Florida has a larger effect on their death rate than the 3.7% lower vaccination rate.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#313

Post by theandrewbailey »

tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

> I'd say the answer to that should be determined by the hospital capacity. If a region has sufficient hospital capacity that it would not be overwhelmed by the increase in COVID cases among the unvaccinated go ahead and lift most restrictions.

Having anyone's freedoms dependent on available hospital capacity is a terrible way to run a society. Note that these freedoms were debated and won in an era where medicine was terrible.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#314

Post by beams_of_light »

parkingrift wrote: post #269
donohoe wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice Great! The problem is that vaccines don't protect society unless a critical-mass of people are vaccinated. The estimate for COVID-19 is that roughly 70% to 85% of the population will need to be vaccinated to reach the herd immunity threshold. USA is at about 63% fully vaccinated (76% had at least one dose). where does it end? It ends when the the threat subsides. Why this…

>Great! The problem is that vaccines don't protect society unless a critical-mass of people are vaccinated. They don't protect society at all. The herd immunity goal flew out the window with Delta and left the galaxy with Omicron. We will not ever eradicate Covid-19 with vaccination. >It ends when the the threat subsides. It should end right now, then. The threat has subsided. We have vaccines and other treatment pro…

Eradication is not the goal. Making sure hospitals aren't overwhelmed with COVID patients is the goal. Catching COVID is potentially dangerous and often times results in long recovery window. Vaccination is harmless and works. The thread will never subside; this is a new virus we will have to live with for the rest of our lives - especially considering we can't seem to get everyone to do the right thing, even with government mandates.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#315

Post by pengaru »

tharne wrote: post #253
hatware wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention all of the vaccine injuries that do exist but are rarely reported on. It's almost like there's a narrative here.

> Not to mention all of the vaccine injuries that do exist but are rarely reported on. Source?

Myocarditis and "long covid-like" side effects have both been widely reported...

Just search in this page for "vaccin":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myocarditis

Full disclosure: I'm vaccinated, am pro-vaxx, but every choice has risks.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#316

Post by tehjoker »

01100011 wrote: post #137
Izkata wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and I am done caring about this class of people. And their response will be "Finally! This is all we've wanted this entire time!" I don't think most here understand just how much "this class of people" value freedom over safety.

Until they get seriously ill and then they start crying. My dad's physician, of all people, was anti vax until he ended up in the ER. Then he started telling all of his patients to get vaxxed.

The best part is though that whenever an anti-vax person gets sick, survives and tells people to get the vax, they're treated like they are spreading a disease lol

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#317

Post by sudosysgen »

crackercrews wrote: post #286
sudosysgen wrote: post #10

Some people are saying that this is notable because Pfizer has a financial incentive to keep vaccine mandates. That is not true. Pfizer is going to be making a lot more money from their COVID treatments than from the vaccine.

They don't have enough supply yet for this incentive to be in effect. Once they reach the tipping point, look forward to them changing their tune. The good news is that it might actually align with the public's best interest.

Pfizer is going to be making 5.7 billion dollars in revenue from Paxlovid at the bare minimum in the next 6 months, in the US. That's around as much revenue as 300 million vaccine doses. We are already past the tipping point, as of around 20 days ago.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#318

Post by trinovantes »

akomtu wrote: post #285
tynpeddler wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaxxed and unvaxxed populations both rely on the same medical infrastructure. So when the unvaxxed fill hospitals to recover or die, they are consuming scarce resources that are required by the population at large for other things like birth, cancer, surgery, etc. Sadly, we don't have an ethical way to let all the unvaxxed get covid without impacting the medical system negatively for the rest of us.

The same reasoning can be applied to obesity.

Junk food has consumption tax

Also, assuming their obesity is a life style choice instead of type 1 diabetes, I suspect many obese people would be willing to take a easy vaccine if it exists considering how big the lose-weight-quick industry is

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#319

Post by rglullis »

tynpeddler wrote: post #272
tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

The vaxxed and unvaxxed populations both rely on the same medical infrastructure. So when the unvaxxed fill hospitals to recover or die, they are consuming scarce resources that are required by the population at large for other things like birth, cancer, surgery, etc. Sadly, we don't have an ethical way to let all the unvaxxed get covid without impacting the medical system negatively for the rest of us.

Cigarette use kills 480000 people every year in the US alone. 300 billion dollars estimated to be spent per year with treatment of smoking-related illness.

I don't want even to look at the numbers of the more critical epidemic on the US: obesity and metabolic diseases.

By arguing that "the unvaxxed" are a burden and that they deserve discrimination, you are opening the gates for those arguing that smokers should be forced to stop smoking, or that obese people need to be forced to stricter diets.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#320

Post by theandrewbailey »

01100011 wrote: post #151
Bhilai wrote: post #80

I am done. I did my part, wore masks (sometimes double masks,) three shots of vaccines and took all reasonable precautions that a sane person could do. But there are still unmasked people and unvaccinated people (sure, blame me for putting everyone in this binary category) and I am done caring about this class of people. I could not see my family for two years due to one or the other international travel restrictions…

Agreed, and we just lost my wife's grandma to Covid. She could have been fine but that part of the family swallowed the anti-vax lie. My wife's aunt almost died from Covid. They should have known better too, having lost a brother in Vietnam to Covid, but the Trumpian lies had a stronger hold on them. We do still need to think about the people who can't get vaxxed for medical reasons. My sister has MS and has been on…

> Trumpian lies

Trump supports the vaccines that he helped fund and create.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/24/politics/trump-covid-vaccine-...

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