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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#121

Post by rajup »

lghh wrote: post #71
quaffapint wrote: post #66

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice. My problem with mandates is where does it end? Why this mandate and not other mandates? Who gets to decide that?

That's literally the case with every government-imposed rule in existence. You're asking a question that has been asked and answered 100 times. "Why seatbelts? Where does it end?" "Why can't I shoot someone? Where does it end?" etc etc

Answered how? Each one of those were debated and we have agreed on some of these rules. I don’t think the debate for vaccine mandates has been settled though, much as some would like to see any discussion of it quelled.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#122

Post by xadhominemx »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #108
peter422 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Florida have had way more deaths after vaccinations were widely available. Also don’t compare to NY… New York is such a unique state due to how it was hit so hard right away. Compare Florida and California. Florida has 50% more deaths per capita. That’s a lot!

I don't understand how you can say this in good faith. The state by state death rates were and are all over the map. Death rates seem to have far more to do with the prevalence of underlying conditions and some key decisions made regarding vulnerable sub groups early on. In light of this your comment basically boils down to "don't pick a state that has policy I like that's on the high end, pick one on the low end"

No post body was provided.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#123

Post by DSMan195276 »

tzs wrote: post #36
msoad wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eating five cheeseburgers a day increase the rush of death too. We don’t have laws against it.

The effects of eating five cheeseburgers a day are spread out over decades. The result of a group of people choosing to each five cheeseburgers a day is a tiny increase in the average load on the health care system over many many years. The effect of COVID on the health care system is a large short term spike in load. It is almost always in almost all systems much easier to deal with a long term small steady increase…

Yeah this whole thing is extremely frustrating to me, it's simply ignoring reality. I would love to not care about other peoples choices, but I can't do that when I have family members who had surgery delayed because of COVID cases taking over hospitals.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#124

Post by walterbell »

xadhominemx wrote: post #114
walterbell wrote: post #38

The media's binary separation of populations into vax and unvax is a false dichotomy. More causal factors would be represented by: 1. Covid-recovered 2. Vaccinated 3. Partly-vaccinated ( CDC reporting bundles #3 and #4. UK reports all 4 categories separately. #1 was already a high percentage in 2021 and is now higher due to Omicron. Edit: CDC estimated pre-Omicron #1 as 146 million people (as of Oct 2021), https://ww…

At this point, “3” represents a tiny fraction of the population so isn’t even really worth breaking out

To the contrary, #3 includes everyone receiving a booster, because immune system suppression/DoS immediately after a vaccine makes it the period of highest risk for both infection (from Covid or anything else) and vaccine injury. If we don't have separate reporting for #3, those negative effects will be attributed to #4. How many people know they should minimize physical exertion and crowds for 14 days post-vax?

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#125

Post by tomrod »

Izkata wrote: post #86
Bhilai wrote: post #80

I am done. I did my part, wore masks (sometimes double masks,) three shots of vaccines and took all reasonable precautions that a sane person could do. But there are still unmasked people and unvaccinated people (sure, blame me for putting everyone in this binary category) and I am done caring about this class of people. I could not see my family for two years due to one or the other international travel restrictions…

> and I am done caring about this class of people. And their response will be "Finally! This is all we've wanted this entire time!" I don't think most here understand just how much "this class of people" value freedom over safety.

> I don't think most here understand just how much "this class of people" value freedom over safety.

No, the problem is that we do, and also see the selfishness of the position with regards to highly communicable diseases. "My body, my choice" is a fantastic principle when the outcome of the choice has negligible impact on people breathing the same air. Many of these same folks would raise a stir if their neighbor started throwing their trash over the fence. In my mind there is no distinction. Their choice to not be vaccinated or wear masks results in people we love dying. It's not their individual freedom that is the risk. Their choice threatens our collective freedoms to life and liberty which we individually enjoy.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#126

Post by _fat_santa »

quaffapint wrote: post #66

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice. My problem with mandates is where does it end? Why this mandate and not other mandates? Who gets to decide that?

What's aggravating is all the "feel good" policies that fly in the face of the current state of the pandemic. We have gotten to the point where numerous officials have said something along the lines of "vaccines won't protect you against getting Omicron, masks don't really do anything either".

So you think. Ok, we have gotten to the point where these measures are ineffective, so lets do away with the measures. And that is precisely where you bump up against these "feel good" policies.

We know masks don't really work, but lets keep mandating them because they give us the sense of security that they are doing something. We know vaccines don't prevent you from getting or spreading Covid but we feel like it does something, so mandate it anyways.

I'm afraid that we are moving from "we need mandates to keep people safe" to "we need mandates to keep people feeling safe". In 20 years we're all still going to be wearing masks at the airport because "it makes people feel safer".

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#127

Post by anonfornoreason »

peter422 wrote: post #87
yucky wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, there doesn't seem to be any correlation between states like New York and Florida and their polar opposite approaches to mandates. In the end, the data says it made no difference. Why?

Florida have had way more deaths after vaccinations were widely available. Also don’t compare to NY… New York is such a unique state due to how it was hit so hard right away. Compare Florida and California. Florida has 50% more deaths per capita. That’s a lot!

Adjust for median age and your argument is moot

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#128

Post by neaden »

Bhilai wrote: post #80

I am done. I did my part, wore masks (sometimes double masks,) three shots of vaccines and took all reasonable precautions that a sane person could do. But there are still unmasked people and unvaccinated people (sure, blame me for putting everyone in this binary category) and I am done caring about this class of people. I could not see my family for two years due to one or the other international travel restrictions…

Well hope you don't need to be hospitalized for any other reason then because the beds might be full, there probably won't be enough providers because of burn out, and costs will be going up. We are nearing a collapse of our medical system in a way that people don't seem to be recognizing or doing anything about.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#129

Post by xadhominemx »

walterbell wrote: post #124
xadhominemx wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, “3” represents a tiny fraction of the population so isn’t even really worth breaking out

To the contrary, #3 includes everyone receiving a booster, because immune system suppression/DoS immediately after a vaccine makes it the period of highest risk for both infection (from Covid or anything else) and vaccine injury. If we don't have separate reporting for #3, those negative effects will be attributed to #4. How many people know they should minimize physical exertion and crowds for 14 days post-vax?

Ok, that’s different from the definition you just provided but in any event it’s still a very small proportion of the population

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#130

Post by kansface »

peter422 wrote: post #87
yucky wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, there doesn't seem to be any correlation between states like New York and Florida and their polar opposite approaches to mandates. In the end, the data says it made no difference. Why?

Florida have had way more deaths after vaccinations were widely available. Also don’t compare to NY… New York is such a unique state due to how it was hit so hard right away. Compare Florida and California. Florida has 50% more deaths per capita. That’s a lot!

Florida is 25% old people, CA is not.
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